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Thread: 407 clutch

  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default 407 clutch

    hi Guys,

    the flywheel has been getting rattling as buggery in the 407 lately ..... well it must be 80,000kms since it firs started rattling Anyone, for the first time in .... wow ... months I drove the car today and guess who was in it when the clutch decided to die ....

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    So ... what is the easiest way to change the clutch.... Try to remove the gearbox ... or just yank the whole drivetrain out the top it's a 407 6spd 2.0 HDi.

    seeya
    Shane L.
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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    this is so frustrating.... finally after nearly 8 months I have the household shit out of my shed, and the mighty CX back in it ................ Not even two weeks the proper car was parked there ....



    Not even two weeks ( groan ) ... and there is shit clogging up my shed again



    Really, they think that will fit out of there ..... it'll be bloody close! Look how nifty all the big crash members and crush cans are on this car. Not to mention the gearbox looks like an old air cooled 2stroke... Look at all the cooling fins cast into it.





    I haven't even put a spanner to the damn thing yet .. and look at that ... problems are being found. 2 split outer drivershaft boots ( I wonder how long they have been split ). No sign of grease around them, and you can't tell they are split unless you push at the boot. Does anyone have any recommendations on where to buy quality boots. My luck buying rubber parts lately really sucks ...

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 407 clutch-20180115_232948.jpg   407 clutch-20180115_232756.jpg   407 clutch-20180115_232647.jpg   407 clutch-20180115_232554.jpg  
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    Hi Shane,

    How close is it to needing a cam belt etc.?
    As you have your raised platform there, then it's probably easier to drop the whole lot out of the bottom, replace the cam belt and whatever seals need doing, check hoses and turbo pipes, give it all a good clean, fix the clutch etc and it's good for another 10 years!

    Cheers
    Roland

    Land Rover Discovery 4
    406 Coupe D9 - Manual (2002)
    307 Hdi Estate - Auto - (2007)
    307 Hdi Sedan - Auto - (2007)
    505GR Estate - Personal Import from UK 1971cc Manual (March 1986)
    405 Mi16x4 (all the parts ready to install into the LeMans body)

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Hi Shane,

    How close is it to needing a cam belt etc.?
    As you have your raised platform there, then it's probably easier to drop the whole lot out of the bottom, replace the cam belt and whatever seals need doing, check hoses and turbo pipes, give it all a good clean, fix the clutch etc and it's good for another 10 years!

    Cheers
    Roland

    Yes the cam belt is due this year. I hadn't considered dropping the entire lot out of the bottom. Does it just come out on the subframe that must be removed

    seeya
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    Hi Shane,

    Yours is the 2l Hdi engine which as far as I know is the same as the engine in the 307 which I have 2 of! (both 2007)

    On the 307 the sub-frame holds the suspension and steering rack and that's about it!

    In fact, when I had the engine/gearbox out of one of my 307s I took the plastic bumper off, headlights, bumper bar, radiator and radiator panel, various little bits and pieces (inter-cooler for example), and you are left with a gaping hole in the front of the car that you can remove the engine through. That's horizontally forwards!

    (I had momentarily forgotten about this in my previous post! )

    The plastic bumper has some fancy clips at the side which are fiddly to release otherwise it's all reverse lego!

    If you are careful, you can leave the air-con compressor connected; just unbolt it off the engine and move it out of the way - no need to de-gas and re-gas that way!

    Check out the Service box web site to see the way things are arranged and bolted together.

    Cheers
    Roland
    Land Rover Discovery 4
    406 Coupe D9 - Manual (2002)
    307 Hdi Estate - Auto - (2007)
    307 Hdi Sedan - Auto - (2007)
    505GR Estate - Personal Import from UK 1971cc Manual (March 1986)
    405 Mi16x4 (all the parts ready to install into the LeMans body)

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    You right, I was looking under it today, and the entire front end just unbolts....

    Anyway, I grabbed this guys instructions ....

    407 hdi clutch replacement - Peugeot Forums

    and started at step one ..... Then proceeded to turn my shed upside down looking for the god damn 35mm socket and 3/4" breakers bar. All the other 3/4" sockets I own are there, so my assumption is I have lent it to someone ..... grrrr..... Is there anything more frustrating that searching for something you know you own .... and that should be there!

    ER, say, have I lent anyone on here a 3/4" breakers bar ... and 1 3/8ths " socket ( aka 35mm).

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    seeya,
    Sahne L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    I did the clutch in the 2009 2.0 HDi (RHR) 6 speed manual 308 Touring a few months back. I just took the gearbox out the bottom. I initially looked and tried to do it without removing the subframe but there just isn't enough room. With the subframe removed there is heaps of room. The only real difference from the instructions in the link above with the 308 was that I didn't need to remove any coolant hoses, and I didn't remove the plastic cover over the sump. I also slid a couple of sheets of corrugated cardboard down behind the radiator so that any loose items / tools didn't damage the fins in the back of the radiator.

    I also replaced the release fork at the same time as it was only $30 from EAI. There is a liner / bush which wears against the pivot ball in the gearbox. Buying a new release fork with the bush in it was of course cheaper than buying just the bush by itself.

    You might also add a rattle gun to the tools list - used for removing the flywheel bolts and the driveshaft nuts - not for replacing the flywheel bolts of course !

    Check your rear main seal while it's apart. That seal is crazy expensive genuine.

    I had to replace a couple of wheel arch liner plugs as well.

    I made up a tool to lock the flywheel for tightening but not sure it was actually required.

    Add some Loktite to the list of parts as well.

    When I detached the steering rack from the subframe I cable tied the steering rack up in roughly it's 'fitted' position to whatever was above it and suspended the rack while the subframe was out. I didn't feel comfortable leaving the rack just hanging in the air off the steering column and the hydraulic pipes.

    Cheers

    Justin
    '07 C3 Exclusive
    '10 308 Sportium Touring
    '12 Megane RS265 8:08

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Brilliant! Thanks for your help. I'm just waiting on a 35mm socket to arrive now before I can actually proceed (talk about a PIA). I've just noticed the lower ball joints are bloody E-torx (mirror image of torx bolts) too. I can't tell if my Etorx sockets are big enough until I unbolt the lower arm (which needs to wait until the driveshaft nuts are cracked).

    seeya,
    Sahne L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    From memory it's an E16

    Cheers

    Justin
    UFO likes this.
    '07 C3 Exclusive
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  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Well the 35mm socket arrived... So my 3/4" bar and socket should suddenly appear from somewhere in the near future.

    Anyway, I'm working my way through those directions above. It does come apart easily. it's remarkable not have pre-rounded and rusted fasteners everywhere. I pulled the brakes off one side front as directed.... had a good look and decided I could see a reason to pull the brakes off.... so left them on the other side (with no dramas, you can still get to all of the bolts).

    The radiator coolant ... I pulled the lower hose and felt like doing a dance around the shed. The first time EVER in my life I've managed this without flooding the shed .... I used a babies bath to drain it into .................................................. ........... It's a blody shame I only noticed 15mintues later the baby bath had a crack in the bottom of it .... Oh well, it wouldn't be me working under a car in my shed, if I wasn't swimming in coolant.

    I've got the lower subframe out ... and continued following the instructions. I'm up to "remove main subframe and steering rack".... damn I didn't realise that had to come out. Where the hell do I put the jack stands if that is removed.... There is nothing strong enough to put stands under once you unbolt that subframe (sure you can use the sills when you jack from ... but they bend just changing the wheel when jacked from there).

    This is a surprisingly large job... not difficult. just bigger than you would expect.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    UFO likes this.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Shane on the C5 I've used the sill jacking point with the axle stands on high, but yes once the sub frame is out no other locations to put a trolley jack under?

    Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Well the 35mm socket arrived... So my 3/4" bar and socket should suddenly appear from somewhere in the near future.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yes .... I bloody new it would work ........ 2 days after the 35mm socket arrives in the post .... Guess what I find stashed behind the spare wheel in the Rage Rover....



    its a bloody shame I didn't attempt to give the thing its annual vacuum a week ago ................... Maybe I should actually go give it the vacuum now ..... or maybe I'll just give it another year .... can't rush these things.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 407 clutch-20180131_220937.jpg  
    dimistyle likes this.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    In finally got the bloody gearbox out ... We just needed some weather where it wasn't getting to 35degrees everyday ....



    its certainly not a job you'd be in a hurry to do ... ( well I put it off for 80,000 rattling kms ).



    See how ovalised the hub in the middle of the duel mass flywheel is ... No wonder the POS was rattling so much.



    failure mode is the center mass of the POS flywheeel doesn't rotate evenly and munches up the pressure plate where the throwout bearing touches (as it'll be moving around due to the ovalisation). This bends the pressure plate fingers and bang ... the throwout bearing punches its way through and you have no clutch.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 407 clutch-4072.jpg   407 clutch-4073.jpg   407 clutch-4071.jpg  
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    well I fitted up the new flywheel and clutch this morning ... and spent easily 3 hours trying to get that geaerbox to slide back onto the motor.



    After having the gearbox in and out at least 3 times ... loosening the pressure plate several times and rechecking the clutch plate is centered ..... and screaming abuse at it for at least 3 hours I have realised what the best thing to do would be ..................... That is drag the piece of shit out into the paddock with the tractor and set fire to it.



    if your ever crazy enough to attempt this. don't use an engine crane to support the engine, don't put the car up on ramps. You see everything is in the way while you try to move the gearbox around. Getting it to slide on is a piece of cake. I just can't get it to go the last 5mm ..... no matter what I try, not matter how many different angles I try ... no matter how many times I remove the god damn gearbox and recheck the alignment.

    I watched the latest episde of roadkill this morning. And was amazed how this works for everyone else. They lowered that big V8 down into the car ... and with the 3 of them standing around watching you just hear "click... clack ... CLUNK". They stop the crane lowering and look in and say "look at that isntalled". The thing had lined itself up and slide onto the gearbox just by lowering the crane --- That is how it works for other people not me. I lay in a pool of coolant ... with an engine crane leg under my back ... and sharp bits of bumper and car in the way ... and get nowhere.

    I wonder if the tractor will start .... I hope there is some mower fuel left.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 407 clutch-20180210_123314.jpg   407 clutch-20180210_123302.jpg  
    UFO likes this.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I finally got the god damn gearbox back on..... the only problem is I had to loosen all the pressure plates bolts off to do it ............. hopefully now if I remove the lump of craps gearbox again ... the clutch plate will not move, so I can tighten the bolts and have a 100% accurately lined up clutch.

    What ever happened to valeo clutches coming with there own alignment tools, so i dont' ahve to use my universal tool... it looks perfect, measures perfect, but the universal tool must leave it the tiniest hair out.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    I'd have to say 'Unlucky' ! A few years back I did the clutch in the GTi6 and had the same experience as you here. Couldn't get the damn thing to line up for anything.

    Expecting the same issues with the 308 I had the swear jar at the ready. To my amazement I could have made one of those youtube videos where it just lines up first go - and the first bolt goes straight in all the way with fingers. This time I even bought a fancy alignment tool and thought afterwards 'why did I waste money on that' !

    You win some, you lose some !

    Cheers

    Justin
    '07 C3 Exclusive
    '10 308 Sportium Touring
    '12 Megane RS265 8:08

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    I'd have to say 'Unlucky' ! A few years back I did the clutch in the GTi6 and had the same experience as you here. Couldn't get the damn thing to line up for anything.

    Expecting the same issues with the 308 I had the swear jar at the ready. To my amazement I could have made one of those youtube videos where it just lines up first go - and the first bolt goes straight in all the way with fingers. This time I even bought a fancy alignment tool and thought afterwards 'why did I waste money on that' !

    You win some, you lose some !

    Cheers

    Justin
    Yes, I filled up the swear jar trying to line up the Xantia too!

    Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
    06 Citroen C5 Estate 2.2 Hdi Auto
    95 Peugeot 306 S16
    95 Silver Xantia VSX - now deceased

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    well I've finally got the damn thing back together. It didn't help that I managed to break one of the snap rings on the driveshafts when I changed the boot (those suckers are surprisingly quite hard to find). I ended up going upto the local driveline place. They didn't even seem to have them new. Instead they grabbed a big tray of used snap rings they'd salvaged from dead driveshafts and said "help yourself... see if you can find one there that fits".

    I was quite concerned about the fact I'd fitted a single mass flywheel and clutch as I remember reading somewhere that someone fitted one and hated it........... But it seems bloody good after a quick drive. Actually at first it seemed spectacular. There was only about 1 inch of clutch travel, and it fully engaged/disengaged in that inch...... Brilliant ... similar action to the fully powered hydraulic clutch in the mighty CX turbo ....... However I noticed the cruise control wasn't working, so I lifted the clutch pedal with my foot while driving along .... and the damn thing lifted up high and worked like a normal clutch again

    It might be harsher than a duel mass flywheel setup... I really can't remember though. My other cars are classic/vintage citroens and an old V8 range rovers with that feature a shitload of driveline lash... compared to them it feels great.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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