604 mechanicals
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Thread: 604 mechanicals

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 604 mechanicals

    I have aquired a 604 that has been sitting for 10 years.I thought I would get it running if possible, check oil pressure and compression and decide what to do then. would most of the driveline components fit in a 504? open to sugestions...........cheers..........Wayne

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    Fellow Frogger! James S's Avatar
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    Hi Wayne,
    My 504 has a 604 V6 engine in it, plus a 5 speed manual, which could have come from either a 604 or a 505. I assume that it is a BA10/5, not a BA7/5 - I will find out eventually.

    Others might know more about other components - driveshaft / diff / brakes etc.

    Cheers,
    James

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    Apart from encouraging the conversion, my only "2 bobs' worth" here would be to get rid of the low-geared 504 steering rack. I gather that the PWS 505 rack is quicker & easily retrofitted. I would dispense with the power assist & have feelfull steering for brisk work in the wet.

    I have no idea (it'd be easy to test with your 604) but it might well be that the 604 steering is as quick as the 505. Does anyone have "lock to lock" figures for the three vehicle types?

    Bonne chance! Peter

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    The 604 engine would only make it slightly faster than the 2 litre but use bucket loads more fuel, don't bother, particularly as it is most likely an auto. You can fit the rack and lower control arms to the 504, much more beneficial.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    The 604 engine would only make it slightly faster than the 2 litre but use bucket loads more fuel, don't bother, particularly as it is most likely an auto. You can fit the rack and lower control arms to the 504, much more beneficial.
    .......and give miles less access under the bonnet to fix the front cover oil leaks. In my experience it’d never wear out though.


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    Odd: I would have thought that (with a manual transmission anyway) the V6 would be significantly torquier & more accelerative.

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    Well, I've only driven mine in the driveway but the guy who I bought it from drove it from his place to mine and commented that it had the level of power that they should have had originally. I look forward to experiencing this myself having owned numerous 504s and others. With the fuel - yeah it'll have to use a bit. I guess I'll find out when it gets on the road eventually.

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    Never came with manual in this country.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Odd: I would have thought that (with a manual transmission anyway) the V6 would be significantly torquier & more accelerative.

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    It's been modified then?
    Quote Originally Posted by James S View Post
    Well, I've only driven mine in the driveway but the guy who I bought it from drove it from his place to mine and commented that it had the level of power that they should have had originally. I look forward to experiencing this myself having owned numerous 504s and others. With the fuel - yeah it'll have to use a bit. I guess I'll find out when it gets on the road eventually.

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    The carburetion and dual track ignition were reasons enough to avoid, for me. Start with Volvo ignition swap.


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    Then again, you could upgrade it with Megasquirt.

    Have fun,

    Rob.
    PS: I've been a bit slack in that thread. Added a toothed wheel last year but too lazy to write it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    It's been modified then?
    Possibly. Non original carb maybe. Nothing was mentioned to me about any engine mods when I bought it. It was converted years ago by Alpine Motors in Canberra apparently. I bought it because it was straight and rust free. It just happened to have the V6 and 5 speed ☺️. Paint and interior aren't great. I had a choice with the same seller between a good looking stock standard GL manual with rust and what looked like a minor rear end repair, or the rougher but straight V6 one. I chose this one.

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    If it is a manual, I would swap EVERYTHING! Engine, gearbox, entire front and rear ends, and fuel tank. You will need to attack the rear cross member with the plasma cutter to get rid of the two extensions that bolt on to the chassis and take a couple of turns off the coil springs to adjust the height (or use your original 504 springs). It will give you a 50% increase in power (with the possibility of significant upgrades), better brakes, quicker steering and wider track. But keep the original 504 diff, the 604 diff is too long.

    If it is an automatic, leave it alone.
    Last edited by ThanosK; 17th January 2018 at 04:33 PM.

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    In the V6 compatible with the 505 5-speed manual?

    cheers! Peter

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    Thanos, the ones we got in this country had pollution control and all autos.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThanosK View Post
    If it is a manual, I would swap EVERYTHING! Engine, gearbox, entire front and rear ends, and fuel tank. You will need to attack the rear cross member with the plasma cutter to get rid of the two extensions that bolt on to the chassis and take a couple of turns off the coil springs to adjust the height (or use your original 504 springs). It will give you a 50% increase in power (with the possibility of significant upgrades), better brakes, quicker steering and wider track. But keep the original 504 diff, the 604 diff is too long.

    If it is an automatic, leave it alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    In the V6 compatible with the 505 5-speed manual?

    cheers! Peter
    No, bell housing and input shaft wrong, also you need a right hand drive bell housing. Also, you need a flywheel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    No, bell housing and input shaft wrong, also you need a right hand drive bell housing. Also, you need a flywheel.
    Hmm. I wonder how mine was converted then? A BA10/5 won't bolt onto the V6?

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    Yes, but it needs to be the correct one, from a privately imported car or gearbox brought in from O/S.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThanosK View Post
    If it is a manual, I would swap EVERYTHING! Engine, gearbox, entire front and rear ends, and fuel tank. You will need to attack the rear cross member with the plasma cutter to get rid of the two extensions that bolt on to the chassis and take a couple of turns off the coil springs to adjust the height (or use your original 504 springs). It will give you a 50% increase in power (with the possibility of significant upgrades), better brakes, quicker steering and wider track. But keep the original 504 diff, the 604 diff is too long.

    If it is an automatic, leave it alone.
    Thanos, what do you mean by [ leave it alone ] Dont do the swap or do it and modify nothing .

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAS504 View Post
    Thanos, what do you mean by [ leave it alone ] Dont do the swap or do it and modify nothing .
    The automatic is really slow (I had one, I junked it for parts but I have 504 V6 coupes that use the same mechanicals), and the swap is not simple either since you will have to shorten the torque tube and drive shaft. The performance gain is minimal and in my opinion does not justify the swap. If you just use the 604 front and rear ends, you sacrifice the car for very little, you can get 505 front and rear ends from a junkyard. So I would leave the car alone.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThanosK View Post
    the swap is not simple either since you will have to shorten the torque tube and drive shaft.
    If you 504 is a later one (post-1977ish) you can use the 504 torque tube and tailshaft without modification.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Apart from encouraging the conversion, my only "2 bobs' worth" here would be to get rid of the low-geared 504 steering rack. I gather that the PWS 505 rack is quicker & easily retrofitted. I would dispense with the power assist & have feelfull steering for brisk work in the wet.

    I have no idea (it'd be easy to test with your 604) but it might well be that the 604 steering is as quick as the 505. Does anyone have "lock to lock" figures for the three vehicle types?

    Bonne chance! Peter
    Would the rack alone be worth it without the pump ?
    Or would it be too heavy for daily use ?
    Chadi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doush_504 View Post
    Would the rack alone be worth it without the pump ?
    Or would it be too heavy for daily use ?
    The motivation is quicker steering. The motivation for quicker steering is handling control. Handling control tends not to be a town-speeds matter but a country road matter & steering weight would not be an issue.

    If most of one's use of the car were around town, then I'd stay with the low geared standard rack perhaps. If motivated to quicker steering for country road handling, then power assistance is counterproductive via degrading one's feel of what the contact patches' state of grip is.

    In any event, I doubt that it'd be forbiddingly heavy at parking speeds despite the (if I recall aright) amount of castor in the front end geometry.

    cheers! Peter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doush_504 View Post
    Would the rack alone be worth it without the pump ?
    Or would it be too heavy for daily use ?
    The motivation is quicker steering. The motivation for quicker steering is handling control. Handling control tends not to be a town-speeds matter but a country road matter & steering weight would not be an issue.

    If most of one's use of the car were around town, then I'd stay with the low geared standard rack perhaps. If motivated to quicker steering for country road handling, then power assistance is counterproductive via degrading one's feel of what the contact patches' state of grip is.

    In any event, I doubt that it'd be forbiddingly heavy at parking speeds despite the (if I recall aright) amount of castor in the front end geometry.

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    The motivation is quicker steering. The motivation for quicker steering is handling control. Handling control tends not to be a town-speeds matter but a country road matter & steering weight would not be an issue.

    If most of one's use of the car were around town, then I'd stay with the low geared standard rack perhaps. If motivated to quicker steering for country road handling, then power assistance is counterproductive via degrading one's feel of what the contact patches' state of grip is.

    In any event, I doubt that it'd be forbiddingly heavy at parking speeds despite the (if I recall aright) amount of castor in the front end geometry.

    cheers! Peter

    I use a 604 rack in my rally car , I have now fitted electric assistance , but for many years I used just the power steer fast rack with no problems . It was very heavy at low speed with rally tyres at 24 psi. but was excellent at speed on the dirt.
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