206 gti 180 tuning
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Thread: 206 gti 180 tuning

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 206 gti 180 tuning

    Hi guys, picked up a 180 as an Xmas prezzie and just searching the webs for tuning info, in particular ECU upgrades/tunes etc.

    I'm pretty keen to write up a full review to post around as the 180 is far, far better than I imagined and far cheaper than it's competitors. That wasn't the case when it was released, but a car that's comparable to an EK9 Type R, that is guaranteed to of lived an easier life and is at least 6K cheaper is really something.

    In regards to tuning I have an issue with the powerband, it's ridiculously huge. There's a power spike at around 3000rpm, then another around 4300rpm and a final pull just before 7000. This is crazy but there's so little info out there I'm not sure if a tune can remedy that or if it will need a hardware change as well, new cams etc. It needs narrowing, as it is that wide band doesn't help the 180s biggest drawback, it's gearbox(or perhaps a narrowing would work out ok and it's actually just missing a good LSD). Any ideas?

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Have you tried searching? We've covered this over and over.
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

    Sandown - 1:31.5
    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

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    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day,
    and over. Life begins at 5K. Take the badges off the back and the little Jappas won't know what hit them. You don't need any enhancements, just foot on the floor, and a couple of apps to keep you legal. So I have been told, I would never do this of course.
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  4. #4
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    GTI 180 seemed pretty nice when i drove one last!

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    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Welcome to

    I'm wondering why you're finding that having a wide powerband is bad ?

    Do you mean you want it to be more 'peaky' and hence more 'exciting' rather than faster ?

    Cheers

    Justin
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  6. #6
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    Yeah I've looked, over and over and no, it hasn't really been covered comprehensively. In fact the number one response to the question all the way back to posts from 2000 is 'it's been covered'. Then the second is 'why would you want to do anything to it?'.

    By covered I mean jappa level covered. I can pull up OG engine maps and 17,000 tuning options for a 4g63 of any generation in less than a second, but godamn I had to test my own 180 with my right foot to establish where the torque/power is in the rpm. That seems crazy for a car with this level of performance. I know there were a few guys that were putting Quaiffe LSDs in, but I can't find anything else from them except for the one guy that said he found it slower pulling out from an intersection. Not very comprehensive. A couple posts here and there about cam upgrades with rather vague details on the effects, and one brilliant piece where intake 'upgrades' were tested to death by a mad genius, but that's definitely the exception not the rule.

    I guess, well no I know, that they're not popular down here, but I wouldn't of thought I'd have to learn French to find tuning tips. I understand this is a properly built car, believe me, but it seems neglected in 'tuning circles' and I can't find anyone but Autohaus in New Zealand that's actually done anything more than a service on them. There has to be something, right?

    As for the wide powerband it's not bad perse, but I could use the power left behind back in the 3-4000 range up at 5, which should be achievable with a tune, to a point of course.

  7. #7
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    Narrow power band requires a lot of skill to use .
    You drop off the power and if your in the wrong gear.....bugger.

    If you want a narrow power band i suggest you get a two-stroke bike like a very early Cagiva Mito 7 Speed , nothing below 8,500 rpm.
    Better still an early Kawasaki Mach 3 , narrower power band again.
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  8. #8
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    It's not about having a narrow power band for the sake of it, it's about channeling the power the engine makes into a more focused place. I don't need the power kick at 3k or the torque push at 4,5k(which I think is where the vvti swaps in? Again, no real definitive info out there. One guy in another forum said it was exhaust side only, an SA magazine review said it was intake only, go figure) thanks to the gearing, I need it at above 5. Think more along the lines of a B18c or K20a.

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    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    It's interesting that even on a racetrack most engine developers went away from peaky powerplants some decades ago - at least on a racetrack you can predict when you'll be able to use a peaky engine. In a road car however you'll have less opportunity to use a peaky engine because most of the time there are too many variables around you - other traffic, road conditions, entertainment tax collectors etc etc.

    In the same respect it's the same with peak power - you'll very rarely be using full throttle either. Telemetry will tell you that a lot of the time you're braking, or feathering the throttle through a corner to balance oversteer/understeer conditions.

    Have you tried the UK forums ? For an English speaking forum you'll find more activity on the UK forums - The Peugeot 306 GTi-6 & Rallye Owners Club is a forum I used to frequent when I had my '6' - not sure if there is a 206 version, but might be worth a look.

    BTW - the term 'Tuning' on a UK / Euro forum quite often refers to body mods, and not necessarily engine mods as you're after.

    Cheers

    Justin
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    While not a direct comparison, here is an article comparing a GTi6 to a Civic EP3 (K20A2)...interesting reading...even if written by a Honda fanboy tragic.....

    Honda Civic Type R (EP3) vs. Peugeot 306 GTi-6 Review | Pug Addicts - #1 Peugeot Blog & Article Resource

    People who buy Peugeots tend to buy them because they're Peugeots, not because they wish they were Hondas.

    Cheers

    Justin
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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    The issue goes a little like this.

    The Honda engines are revving to 9k. Having a head and bottom end that can rev like that means it has the potential to make more power. But sacrificing power lower in the revs. The idea (im sure u may know this) with the Vtech is to run lower profile cam lobes at lower rpm for more drivability and when your into it over the threshold the (vtec yo) vtech cuts in allowing the larger lobes to take over allowing the motor/head to breath more producing more power. If the vtec was operational from 2000rpm the car would barely run until it began reving to allow the air to fill the cylinders properly. The pug motor is 7500. A power band from 3500-7500 is just the same as the Honda from 6-9k. Problem is, while you waiting for the vtec to happen the pug (although not that it feels like it) is pulling away.

    My point it this. If you want to have a harder hitting power band you will need different cam profiles and cam timing.

    Dont listen to someone who says ' I added an lsd and it was slower off the line'. Missing the point completly. If you want a drag car to beat people off the lights get a Tesla.

    To find the info your after you will need to keep searching. Youve had the car 4 days. Dont bother searching jn Australia or NZ as we are all v8 and turbo nutcases. The UK guys will be the best help. Most of the ek9 and k20 'tuning' stuff out there is just money spinning BS anyway. A stock motor (ek9) putting out 180hp from a 1.6 from the factory is mental. As is the 220-240hp from the K20a etc. They are highly strung motors that are essentially a racing motor. The Pug motor has a great drivability and plenty of power. If you want more its going to cost you.

    Fit lighter wheels
    Look at catcams and aftermarket ecu along with an exhaust from the headers back.
    Lsd so your gearbox wont blow up
    Lighter flywheel

    Hope this helps

  12. #12
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    I like this a lot,
    "People who buy Peugeots tend to buy them because they're Peugeots, not because they wish they were Hondas."

    Peugeot do a lot of things very right and well, that's an absolute fact.
    No Japanese manufacturer is as successful as Peugeot and Citroen in WRC wins.
    Basic material/cars must be pretty reasonable. French build good engines.

    Only factory that does it better is Lancia and they have not raced in over twenty years.
    Their various solutions to finding power broke all the rules, Triflux engine , just one case in point!

    "

  13. #13
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    I've never heard of an LSD making the car slower off the line, mine is the single best mod I've done to the car.

    I changed the order of your list, it's great, but I'd get into engine and electrical mods last. Electrical and aftermarket ECU in particular means gutting the car, I'm still in the middle of doing that to mine, and it's a big expensive job to do right.

    A lot depends on what you are trying to achieve, but I'll start with the basics.
    The best money you can spend on making the car faster is to spend money on high performance driver training. You'll gain more seconds on track that way than you ever will with engine upgrades.
    It is possible to chip tune the stock ECU. I did it, but the money I spent on that was pretty much wasted. I should have used it on better suspension or something.

    Next, for a road car I would:
    Better brake pads
    Good tyres (A050 semi slicks if doing track work)
    LSD (Quaife for road, 3J or similar plate diff for track)
    Lighter wheels
    Coilovers (some choices, Ohlins, AST, Bilstein, Gaz in order from best to still really good)
    Upgrade front brake calipers (AP Racing, Alcon, Wilwood, Brembo from 406 coupe)
    Race seat (makes it very obviously unroadworthy)

    If you are building a race car, prepare to spend.
    By the time you've got a full cage, and have improved engine power (maybe 220-230HP) you're unlikely to have any change from $20-30K
    The block and head is capable of around 280-290HP, but you'll be spending a lot more to get there. As an idea, to buy a 280HP EW10J4S engine off the shelf from Peugeot Sport in France is about €50K. My last quote for parts alone (no build or machining) was about €15K
    Haven't even talked about the gearbox for a race build yet.

    If you look back through my posts, and also Brett, you should find some useful nuggets. We're both gradually improving our race 180's.

    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    The Pug motor has a great drivability and plenty of power. If you want more its going to cost you.

    Fit lighter wheels
    Lsd so your gearbox wont blow up
    Look at catcams and aftermarket ecu along with an exhaust from the headers back.
    Lighter flywheel
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

    Sandown - 1:31.5
    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

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    Thanks for that, it's a strange situation for sure. The car is nuts but there's definitely more in reserve. I get the impression that extracting that has never been much of a priority, either because the car is so good to begin with or that any tuning upgrade seems difficult down here.

    I've owned and played with tons of cars, mostly jappas and mostly hatches, from Starlets to Mazda GTXs, a non Type R Integra with a really hot B18c(best engine in the world imo), and i've never come across a car with as little tuning info/options as this pug lol.

    I'm close to Manfield, which is a good track, and the hills where I live are brilliant and empty. I haven't had a track car for years, and that's the plan for the pug. Road legal for the foreseeable, but who knows right?

    For now I'm working on the little things like removing air con and power windows, rear seats, that godamn stereo control stalk etc.
    Trying to source 16"s with semis for track service but finding anything with PSD 4x108 is impossible here, got to order in.

    All basic stuff but trying to put together a plan for when I service it next as I'm pretty keen to get the head off and check on the belt etc. No logs of it been done(it's done 160k) but I was assured it had, I'd rather look for myself and get a better idea of its condition, and it's the perfect time to swap anything out.

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    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    You most likely won't tell the condition of a cam belt by just looking at it. It's a web reinforced belt - the reinforcing wears through use and the rubber components wear through time and heat cycles. If the history is unknown - change it. It's cheap insurance.

    Cheers

    Justin
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  16. #16
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    If you want a mechanic who has played with one of these (mine) go see Powerhaus in Wellington.
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

    Sandown - 1:31.5
    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

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    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berridale View Post
    Narrow power band requires a lot of skill to use .
    You drop off the power and if your in the wrong gear.....bugger.

    If you want a narrow power band i suggest you get a two-stroke bike like a very early Cagiva Mito 7 Speed , nothing below 8,500 rpm.
    Better still an early Kawasaki Mach 3 , narrower power band again.
    G'day, and a rubber frame.
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    regards,
    Les W.


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  18. #18
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    Quick update: seems the car is chipped, found a Superchips key hidden in the hatch. Maybe accounts for how nuts it is. Also the exhaust looks to be a full custom job including the cat as the shield looks different to the only couple of photos of og spec ones I've seen. Think I'm gonna have to pull it down sooner rather than later so I can understand what I'm working with. Taken how little info I can find though I think maybe I'll have to take it to Powerhaus lol.
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  19. #19
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    Another update:

    I want to rip this ac out next weekend so trying to source an alternator belt and I'm unsure as to which belt will work. The guys at Repco and Supercheap had no godamn clue. Any ideas on which size belt I need?

  20. #20
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    Yes, but only if you also remove the PS pump and go electric pump. Here's a link to a useful thread for you.
    https://www.205gtidrivers.com/forums...omment=1504839

    When you're buying belts, you need a 6PK type e.g 6PK815 which is 815mm long.
    It will depend how you intend to tension the belt after you remove the two pulleys. I've retained the original tensioner, and it's untested but looks OK. Brett has changed the mount so it's tensioned manually, and he is using a longer belt than me.
    I'll probably change to the way he's done it in the long term.

    Watch out when fitting, as loosening the bottom pulley can allow the timing to go out. Make sure you lock the crank if you're going to loosen it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mookstix View Post
    Another update:

    I want to rip this ac out next weekend so trying to source an alternator belt and I'm unsure as to which belt will work. The guys at Repco and Supercheap had no godamn clue. Any ideas on which size belt I need?
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

    Sandown - 1:31.5
    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

  21. #21
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    You have to bypass the PS belt? Holy shit, I thought I could maybe use a 138 without ac and be sweet. Seems a lot bigger than just a weekend. Might pull the front off and get rid of everything but the compressor anyway.

  22. #22
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    You don't have to, but it's the only belt length I can tell you.
    Electric power steering is required if you decide to go to ITB's, as the pump impedes the intake setup.

    You should sign up to Service Box and you can probably look up the length of a UK spec GTi without AC.
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

    Sandown - 1:31.5
    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

  23. #23
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    Also, I don't really see the point in removing AC if it's still a road car.
    You can turn it off on the track, and it's not going to be much drag.

    While I'm making suggestions. Not much point changing from electric windows over the manual, minimal weight saving for lots of work. Changing to Lexan would be worth it weight wise though.

    The stereo control stalk just clips out, but to get to the clip you have to take apart the COM2000 unit, which is fraught with danger. Look up COM2000 repairs on google, and be very careful not to mess with the clockspring otherwise you'll never get it back together correctly. Breaking the COM2000 will mean your immobiliser stops the car working at all.
    Last edited by speaksgeek; 17th January 2018 at 02:46 PM.
    pug206gti likes this.
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

    Sandown - 1:31.5
    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

  24. #24
    Tadpole
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    Tbh I want to build a 206 Rallye since they never made one. I like winders, I like function working as form. I prefer a stripped out hardcore roadcar, this isn't a daily. grocery getter, this is my race toy for smashing round the hills in between trackdays. No stereo, no sound deadening just car. Well that's the plan anyways.

  25. #25
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    Fair enough. It's your weekends.
    Sound deadening is mostly really easy to get out, except on the firewall. To get that out, you'll need to remove the whole dash, heater and steering column. All the rest is just under the carpet you can see and just pulls out with a few bolts and trims.

    I'm serious about the windows. You're making work for yourself that has little to no payback. If you decide to get a race harness the electric windows will be easy to use, the manual ones will require belts off.

    For your interest, this is what mine looks like inside now. In a harness, the buttons are all within reach, but nothing further out would work.

    206 gti 180 tuning-img_3903.jpg
    Mi16 Man and pgti6 like this.
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

    Sandown - 1:31.5
    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

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