Just bought a 205GTI, idle is giving me grief
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Thread: Just bought a 205GTI, idle is giving me grief

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Just bought a 205GTI, idle is giving me grief

    Hi All,

    Lovely to be part of the forum. I've had a 182 cup for a couple of years but have never thought to join here (for some reason)(??)

    Recently I have bought myself a 205GTI non cat 1.9. Just before I inspected it, it was serviced by Sydney's AP Engineering's Paul V and upon talking to him and another member on here (who has previously owned the car), I found the engine was a strong one and it was a generally tidy car.

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    Not even a week after picking it up, however, the idle is giving me worries. Oil pressure (I know it has been repeatedly said that the car's readout is not the most accurate) is a healthy 3/4 on revs and 1/3rd between the 1st and 2nd notch on idle after the car has been warmed up and driven.

    The car pulls like a train while driving, but revs drop to a fairly chunderry ~500-600 on idle and if I don't let them drop gently with throttle when braking to a standstill, the car is prone to cutting out.

    Paul mentioned that there was a hole in the intake pipes, which I had a look at bodging with some heavy duty tape until I can get the car to Melbourne. Researching has lead me to find that a hole in the pipes can yield the same symptoms as what my car is doing, but I made a pretty good effort at sealing what I could see to be a gap.

    I know it's a bit frowned upon, but does anyone think it's worth tinkering with the idle screw for a temporary fix until the garages open back up and I can get some professional help? I would need to drive it down to Melbourne before this happens...

    Also worth noting is that it is currently fitted with a somewhat temperamental engine immobiliser. If I deactivate without a clutch/brake depressed, an indicator goes off, it takes a while to disarm and a beeping comes from somewhere (I wasn't told I shouldn't do this). However I just got back from a trip where I managed to do it the correct way and the car seemed to run fine - dipping to the cusp of cutout but bouncing back at idle. Is there any small possibility the immobiliser is somehow draining the battery use to the point where it could be affecting the idle?

    Excited to start my 205 journey but just a wee bit miffed at the moment! Any help would be appreciated!

    Cheers,

    A
    Last edited by Boffin; 29th December 2017 at 05:45 PM. Reason: More car info

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Check the condition of the brake booster hose. The original is fitted across the top of the exhaust manifold and it goes hard and cracks with age. Give it a good wriggle around whilst the car idles and see what happens.
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    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    You have not said what model 205, however another check is to see how clean the connector to the oxygen sensor is. The sensor connector is under the car near the steering rack and these get water in them sometimes and corrode up. Separate the connector and have a look inside.
    Present fleet:-
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    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
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    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
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    Renault 68' 10 from new

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  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    Check the condition of the brake booster hose. The original is fitted across the top of the exhaust manifold and it goes hard and cracks with age. Give it a good wriggle around whilst the car idles and see what happens.
    Cheers for your help. Can this be a driveway fix with no new brake booster hose? Would you happen to know how the brake booster hose has any effect on idle?

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    You have not said what model 205, however another check is to see how clean the connector to the oxygen sensor is. The sensor connector is under the car near the steering rack and these get water in them sometimes and corrode up. Separate the connector and have a look inside.
    I mentioned GTI in the title but youíre right. Itís an Ď88 non cat 1.9.
    Again, do you think this might be a driveway fix if I donít have any spare parts?

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    from my Gti experience I would say (because I used to do it)
    that there's no harm in tweaking the idle screw.
    just keep note of how far and which way you turn it.
    and good luck.

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    Mine recently had a cracked inlet manifold that made this happen, but was a later plastic manifold so it's unlikely to be your problem, should check all intake hoses and gaskets, if you had a crack in one there may be more cracks. There is one under the manifold which is hard to see and get to without taking the manifold off, it could be any off them. Or airflow meter and oxy sensor could also be effecting the idle.
    I would up the idle to see if it made a difference. If you have some air getting in it's not going to fix it much but if it is the immobiliser there is a easy temporary fix.


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    Your car has an air leak or more and given how many things can leak on these cars it may take some effort to find and plug all the leaks. Air leaks basically lean out the fuel mixture hence poor idle.

    Check all the hoses associated with the intake and see which one(s) leak. I would not mess with the idle screw because that is not likely to help you.

    One particularly difficult leak to find was the dizzy capsule, which was shot (diaphragm rotten all the way around so air would leak in and out at will) hence the advance was anyone's guess on top of the fuel mixture being affected. Apart from that the SAD was stuck open so more air was leaking in through that at all times. Check yours by pinching one of the hoses going to it and see what happens (the SAD should be closed after engine warmup).

    The brake booster vacuum hose is another source of vacuum leak, it can be the hose itself or the booster can leak.
    The canister hoses can leak (mine was not connected to anything at the canister end, so it was a straight leak and the other one was missing altogether). My car also had a vacuum activated one way valve for the canister return hose and the valve body was broken, so it leaked air there as well. Some cars have electric valves.

    And so on.

    If you are patient, you can take everything step by step and once you plug all these holes you won't have any problems with the idle. All these leaks can be temporarily fixed with duct tape but the SAD (if it's broken you will have to block one of the hoses internally) and the dizzy (if the capsule is shot like mine, you just have to disconnect the hose and block it). To check the capsule make sure the vacuum hose is good and disconnect it at the manifold then suck and stick your tongue on the end. If it's all good you will feel your tongue stuck, if it leaks nothing will happen.

    There's also a whole bunch of oil vapour hoses vented in the intake, make sure those aren't leaking either.


    Like I said, there's a million places where you can have an air leak. Take it easy and you'll fix them good enough to get you home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lozenge View Post
    from my Gti experience I would say (because I used to do it)
    that there's no harm in tweaking the idle screw.
    just keep note of how far and which way you turn it.
    and good luck.
    Cheers, I guess I'll look into how to do that. Seems to be plenty of people telling me it's not the thing to do but as a temporary fix it might be the only way until I can get some help down there.

    Quote Originally Posted by joshspug View Post
    Mine recently had a cracked inlet manifold that made this happen, but was a later plastic manifold so it's unlikely to be your problem, should check all intake hoses and gaskets, if you had a crack in one there may be more cracks. There is one under the manifold which is hard to see and get to without taking the manifold off, it could be any off them. Or airflow meter and oxy sensor could also be effecting the idle.
    I would up the idle to see if it made a difference. If you have some air getting in it's not going to fix it much but if it is the immobiliser there is a easy temporary fix.

    Sent from my iPhone using aussiefrogs
    Golly, here I was thinking I checked them all. In his extensive notes, the mechanic did note the holes and that he test drove to make sure it was fine. I can't see how it could have got so bad after a week of very occasional use after his expert self cleared it as fine, that's the only thing making me think it's something I'm doing, as he has such a good reputation.

    I notice on 1.6 models there is a bit of talk that more than one screw has to be adjusted - is that the same on the 1.9s or is it just the one on the throttle body I'm looking at?
    Not entirely sure how the immobiliser is wired up to remove it, but I will once it gets put in its new, secure, home..

    Cheers again!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Your car has an air leak or more and given how many things can leak on these cars it may take some effort to find and plug all the leaks. Air leaks basically lean out the fuel mixture hence poor idle.

    Check all the hoses associated with the intake and see which one(s) leak. I would not mess with the idle screw because that is not likely to help you.

    One particularly difficult leak to find was the dizzy capsule, which was shot (diaphragm rotten all the way around so air would leak in and out at will) hence the advance was anyone's guess on top of the fuel mixture being affected. Apart from that the SAD was stuck open so more air was leaking in through that at all times. Check yours by pinching one of the hoses going to it and see what happens (the SAD should be closed after engine warmup).

    The brake booster vacuum hose is another source of vacuum leak, it can be the hose itself or the booster can leak.
    The canister hoses can leak (mine was not connected to anything at the canister end, so it was a straight leak and the other one was missing altogether). My car also had a vacuum activated one way valve for the canister return hose and the valve body was broken, so it leaked air there as well. Some cars have electric valves.

    And so on.

    If you are patient, you can take everything step by step and once you plug all these holes you won't have any problems with the idle. All these leaks can be temporarily fixed with duct tape but the SAD (if it's broken you will have to block one of the hoses internally) and the dizzy (if the capsule is shot like mine, you just have to disconnect the hose and block it). To check the capsule make sure the vacuum hose is good and disconnect it at the manifold then suck and stick your tongue on the end. If it's all good you will feel your tongue stuck, if it leaks nothing will happen.

    There's also a whole bunch of oil vapour hoses vented in the intake, make sure those aren't leaking either.


    Like I said, there's a million places where you can have an air leak. Take it easy and you'll fix them good enough to get you home.
    Thankyou very much, I shall try all those things but I am a bit short of time before I head back. I would have thought blocking a hose to the distributor cap would have been a terribly bad idea (?), but I'm willing to try anything at this point.

    I must say I'm disappointed with how the car's condition has nose dived in the last week. I did an hour long, stop/start traffic run through Sydney after picking it up and now it won't even make a few blocks before needing blips on approach to a stand still. While I have never taken my car there, I have heard sensational things about the work done at AP engineering so it's baffling how this car passed through without more work done, or how this wasn't picked up on the test drive...

    Side note, as does usually happens, you can see the effect of the strained idle on the interior electrics. The dash back lights are extremely dim and the lights for the air flow controls are nigh on invisible.

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    I'm going to be of little assistance, given it is a Peugeot. However, what condition is the battery/alternator in, given the dull lights and dying at idle (from lack of volts to the fuel pump/injectors/electricals)?
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    Boffin, I presume this is an ex UK GTi if it doesn't have a cat... ie: the engine is a D6B and not a DKZ as it would be for an AU spec GTi of that vintage... or else someone has removed the cat :-).

    As others have said there are a number of points were air leaks can emanate from... vacuum advance capsule, a number of breather hoses and also the dispstick. Whether it had a cat or not is of no consequence.

    Bumping up the idle via the throttle stop is an approved method but you want to make sure there aren't any air leaks aka 'false air' to confuse the EFI.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I'm going to be of little assistance, given it is a Peugeot. However, what condition is the battery/alternator in, given the dull lights and dying at idle (from lack of volts to the fuel pump/injectors/electricals)?
    Well this was one of my thoughts. It doesn't jump into life on first start up like some of the ones I've seen but it fires up quite quickly if/when it cuts out in traffic. The mechanic charged the battery when it was in there last week. I could not comment on the condition of the alternator, I don't know what symptoms I should be looking for there, to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by ng850 View Post
    Boffin, I presume this is an ex UK GTi if it doesn't have a cat... ie: the engine is a D6B and not a DKZ as it would be for an AU spec GTi of that vintage... or else someone has removed the cat :-).

    As others have said there are a number of points were air leaks can emanate from... vacuum advance capsule, a number of breather hoses and also the dispstick. Whether it had a cat or not is of no consequence.

    Bumping up the idle via the throttle stop is an approved method but you want to make sure there aren't any air leaks aka 'false air' to confuse the EFI.

    Cheers
    I have a smidge of mechanical nouse, so I'll try my hardest to keep up here. Is the vacuum advance capsule anywhere near the dizzy?

    Ex UK car, yes.

    What could be the ramifications of adjusting the idle while the leaks are still apparent? (as I'm fairly sure I'm not going to be able to find it/fix it in the time I have) - would it be the engine running even richer than it is now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boffin View Post
    Thankyou very much, I shall try all those things but I am a bit short of time before I head back. I would have thought blocking a hose to the distributor cap would have been a terribly bad idea (?), but I'm willing to try anything at this point.

    I must say I'm disappointed with how the car's condition has nose dived in the last week. I did an hour long, stop/start traffic run through Sydney after picking it up and now it won't even make a few blocks before needing blips on approach to a stand still. While I have never taken my car there, I have heard sensational things about the work done at AP engineering so it's baffling how this car passed through without more work done, or how this wasn't picked up on the test drive...

    Side note, as does usually happens, you can see the effect of the strained idle on the interior electrics. The dash back lights are extremely dim and the lights for the air flow controls are nigh on invisible.

    Dude, maybe it's better to advise you to put it on a flat bed if you can't even read.

    I said (if the capsule is shot like mine, you just have to disconnect the hose and block it). Nowhere did I say "block a hose to the distributor cap" (there's no hoses going to the dizzy cap, by the way).

    Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Dude, maybe it's better to advise you to put it on a flat bed if you can't even read.

    I said (if the capsule is shot like mine, you just have to disconnect the hose and block it). Nowhere did I say "block a hose to the distributor cap" (there's no hoses going to the dizzy cap, by the way).

    Good luck.
    Sorry, what's the difference? I'm not a mechanic by trade, I'd appreciate you not going at my throat for misunderstanding a bit of syntax. Just looking for help here.
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boffin View Post
    Sorry, what's the difference? I'm not a mechanic by trade, I'd appreciate you not going at my throat for misunderstanding a bit of syntax. Just looking for help here.
    And help you had.

    But you won't appreciate that as long as you can't be bothered to read it carefully, and now I am going at your throat.

    No, I am not.

    I meant it. If you don't see the difference between the vacuum capsule and the dizzy cap, maybe it's better you trailer the car.

    Seriously.

    I am trying to help you even if this is not the kind of help you were hoping for. It might just be the kind of help you need. As you have seen already, things can be difficult if you don't have some basic knowledge. You need some time if you are to climb this learning curve. It may be to your best interest to leave it for when you have some time to spend on it. Adjusting the idle may or may not fix your problem depending on many variables we can't chase here. You can try and see what happens. Just keep an eye on engine temperature and hope to god your gauge and cooling fans work properly.

    Keep in mind we're just guessing here. There can be many things wrong and adjusting the idle speed just disregards the problem and it is addressing the symptom.

    PS. I am not a mechanic either.

    And syntax has nothing to do with it.

    Google:

    Dizzy cap:

    https://www.ebay.com.au/i/2532972398...=ps&dispctrl=1

    Dizzy vacuum capsule (AKA vacuum advance):

    http://classicpeugeotspares.co.uk/ek...ing-1705-p.jpg
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 30th December 2017 at 03:17 AM.
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    Warm welcome to aussiefrogs at least from me and keep at it mate. Don't be disheartened by one of the local keyboard warriors. There are still many things to check before you need to trailer it.
    The distributor has a vac line running to a circular diaphragm located on the steel body. You can test it by sucking on it. It should hold vacuum if it is working correctly. Otherwise blocking it you will lose your vacuum timing advance only and cure that leak.

    Just bring up your idle screw to 1k and bring it back home. If the leak was bad it wouldn't idle at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boffin View Post
    Sorry, what's the difference? I'm not a mechanic by trade, I'd appreciate you not going at my throat for misunderstanding a bit of syntax. Just looking for help here.
    Youll get used to it, happens all the time. He needs to feel sincere recognition for the things he writes. Mistakes and incorrectly reading or interpreting in not allowed. Ive been haggled for taking to long to build my own project car! I promised I would not reply in any thread he posts in but alas here I am.
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    The first thing to do is to pull the fault codes, clear them, drive, then pull the fault codes again. This will identify the main issues that the ECU has.

    Quote Originally Posted by lozenge View Post
    from my Gti experience I would say (because I used to do it)
    that there's no harm in tweaking the idle screw.
    just keep note of how far and which way you turn it.
    and good luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by ng850 View Post
    Bumping up the idle via the throttle stop is an approved method but you want to make sure there aren't any air leaks aka 'false air' to confuse the EFI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobomacho View Post
    Just bring up your idle screw to 1k and bring it back home. If the leak was bad it wouldn't idle at all.
    A. This is a bandaid fix &,
    B. It doesn't always work, for the following reason.

    The 205 GTi TPS is a 3 position switch and not a potentiometer TPS as in pretty much every Peugeot built after the 205. I like to call the three positions idle, run & wide open throttle (WOT). When the throttle is closed the TPS idle switch should be triggered & the ECU adjusts the fueling accordingly. If you wind the throttle open via the adjusting screw you can put the throttle in a closed position where it doesn't trigger the switch & the engine will hunt at idle. The way to rectify it is do a full calibration on the throttle body by setting the throttle plate gap & adjusting the TPS to factory spec.

    The first component to check for idle related issues is the Supplementary Air Device (SAD) which helps with cold start & idle. It should be removed cleaned & tested. It's resting stated is open when cold. You connect 12V to the SAD and after 5 mins the disc inside should have closed the hole. The connector for the SAD also should be checked as the retaining tangs on the contacts can break and the contacts can be pushed out the back of the connector when connecting it causing intermittant or a lackof continuity.

    Holes in the inlet piping will only affect the running of the engine if those holes are between the Air Flow Meter (AFM) and the throttle body. Significant air leaks that cause running issues should be audible.

    Test that the alternator is charging. Also have the battery tested with a proper tester that shows the battery's functional capacity. A battery with 50% of its original functinal capacity can still start & run a car.

    AFM & oxygen sensor issues can cause idle problems too. These should show in the fault codes. Faulty AFMs also drive a certain way, ususally hesitating &/or cutting out.

    The Bosch Jetronic & Motronic systems are now old & components are regularly failing. Good second hand parts are getting hard to find & new old stock even harder. Don't be surprised if EFI components fail on a 205.

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    Welcome to aussiefrogs! Itís mostly very helpful and understanding here. Iíll refrain from advise as you have lots of good stuff in this.

    If you do keep running into a dead ends it may help to have another person whoís worked on these help you along for a day systematically working through the system.

    Fun little cars, welcome and donít get disheartened, enjoy the journey on and off the tools

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    And help you had.

    But you won't appreciate that as long as you can't be bothered to read it carefully, and now I am going at your throat.

    No, I am not.

    I meant it. If you don't see the difference between the vacuum capsule and the dizzy cap, maybe it's better you trailer the car.

    Seriously.

    I am trying to help you even if this is not the kind of help you were hoping for. It might just be the kind of help you need. As you have seen already, things can be difficult if you don't have some basic knowledge. You need some time if you are to climb this learning curve. It may be to your best interest to leave it for when you have some time to spend on it. Adjusting the idle may or may not fix your problem depending on many variables we can't chase here. You can try and see what happens. Just keep an eye on engine temperature and hope to god your gauge and cooling fans work properly.

    Keep in mind we're just guessing here. There can be many things wrong and adjusting the idle speed just disregards the problem and it is addressing the symptom.

    PS. I am not a mechanic either.

    And syntax has nothing to do with it.

    Google:

    Dizzy cap:

    https://www.ebay.com.au/i/2532972398...=ps&dispctrl=1

    Dizzy vacuum capsule (AKA vacuum advance):

    http://classicpeugeotspares.co.uk/ek...ing-1705-p.jpg
    Who hurt you? Why stop at telling me to flatbed the car if I can't 'carefully' read your response? Surely I wouldn't know my red lights from my green lights either and I just flat-out shouldn't be on the road? Hell, put me in an institution for heaven's sake, it's a slippery slope...

    Again, I really appreciate your help, and thanks for those links, but helping someone doesn't give license to act like a pelican if they're not up to your level of knowledge or misunderstand something. It's too hot for that these days. I have done small tinkering on cars before but nothing with the distributor. I'm doing the best that I can. Sorry for ruining your day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobomacho View Post
    Warm welcome to aussiefrogs at least from me and keep at it mate. Don't be disheartened by one of the local keyboard warriors. There are still many things to check before you need to trailer it.
    The distributor has a vac line running to a circular diaphragm located on the steel body. You can test it by sucking on it. It should hold vacuum if it is working correctly. Otherwise blocking it you will lose your vacuum timing advance only and cure that leak.

    Just bring up your idle screw to 1k and bring it back home. If the leak was bad it wouldn't idle at all.
    Thanks very much. Your chill approach is putting me at ease. I'll try the vac line. Would I even need to trailer it if I can't fix the leak and I don't fiddle with the screw? We only come into strife when at a standstill, something that doesn't usually happen on the Hume.

    If I can eek out a free day tomorrow I'll start taking things apart and hoping for the best. If not, I guess I'll just adjust the screw. Like I said, once on the move the car is fab and doesn't hang around. Even accidentally shifting from 1st to 4th doesn't make the engine hesitate. I have been monitoring the temps when I was stop/starting it through sydney last week and it was hovering just above half at its hottest, but dropped considerably once we were driving and there was a bit of airflow. It was 35+ deg outside.

    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Youll get used to it, happens all the time. He needs to feel sincere recognition for the things he writes. Mistakes and incorrectly reading or interpreting in not allowed. Ive been haggled for taking to long to build my own project car! I promised I would not reply in any thread he posts in but alas here I am.
    Well thanks for popping your head in!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    The first thing to do is to pull the fault codes, clear them, drive, then pull the fault codes again. This will identify the main issues that the ECU has.

    A. This is a bandaid fix &,
    B. It doesn't always work, for the following reason.

    The 205 GTi TPS is a 3 position switch and not a potentiometer TPS as in pretty much every Peugeot built after the 205. I like to call the three positions idle, run & wide open throttle (WOT). When the throttle is closed the TPS idle switch should be triggered & the ECU adjusts the fueling accordingly. If you wind the throttle open via the adjusting screw you can put the throttle in a closed position where it doesn't trigger the switch & the engine will hunt at idle. The way to rectify it is do a full calibration on the throttle body by setting the throttle plate gap & adjusting the TPS to factory spec.

    The first component to check for idle related issues is the Supplementary Air Device (SAD) which helps with cold start & idle. It should be removed cleaned & tested. It's resting stated is open when cold. You connect 12V to the SAD and after 5 mins the disc inside should have closed the hole. The connector for the SAD also should be checked as the retaining tangs on the contacts can break and the contacts can be pushed out the back of the connector when connecting it causing intermittant or a lackof continuity.

    Holes in the inlet piping will only affect the running of the engine if those holes are between the Air Flow Meter (AFM) and the throttle body. Significant air leaks that cause running issues should be audible.

    Test that the alternator is charging. Also have the battery tested with a proper tester that shows the battery's functional capacity. A battery with 50% of its original functinal capacity can still start & run a car.

    AFM & oxygen sensor issues can cause idle problems too. These should show in the fault codes. Faulty AFMs also drive a certain way, ususally hesitating &/or cutting out.

    The Bosch Jetronic & Motronic systems are now old & components are regularly failing. Good second hand parts are getting hard to find & new old stock even harder. Don't be surprised if EFI components fail on a 205.
    Thanks very much for getting back to us with such info. At the moment, I would only need a possible band-aid fix as the car has an appointment with a specialist in Melbourne early next month.

    I must admit I have no means of checking codes where I am currently nor is the dash throwing up any particular warning lights if/when the engine drops out - just the STOP (if we're rolling) and the battery light, which usually comes on when the ignition is on but engine is not (as most cars I've owned/driven).

    I'll have a look at the SAD, and I'll try find a place to get at least the battery checked. Idle is 1k+ rpm on cold startup so I can only imagine its open at least, however not sure if it closes afterwards. What should I be looking for by pinching the hose to the SAD after its warmed up and idling low? For the revs to naturally creep up? Could a SAD get jammed open thanks to spirited driving? I don't think the previous owner took it on too many trips off the main road..

    The only hole I found in the intake was in the piping leading from the filter box to the (what I'm guessing) is the AFM, thanks to a missing bracket on the filter box meaning it was wobbling it around ever so much that a corner of metal near the dizzy (I'm assuming) slowly grinded into the plastic air hose. I have bodged it with some tape. I can't have thought it's been degrading at such a rate that the mechanic didn't pick up on it last week, or that it's the sole root of my problem.

    Seeing that you're Sydney based, you might (again, just an assumption here) have heard about the great things Paul V does. Do you think it's possible that any of the stuff you have just mentioned might have gone under the radar while he was checking/wrenching on it last week?

    Quote Originally Posted by CEyssens View Post
    Welcome to aussiefrogs! It’s mostly very helpful and understanding here. I’ll refrain from advise as you have lots of good stuff in this.

    If you do keep running into a dead ends it may help to have another person who’s worked on these help you along for a day systematically working through the system.

    Fun little cars, welcome and don’t get disheartened, enjoy the journey on and off the tools
    Cheers! Depending on how it (and my wallet) is after its date with the Hume and the mechanic shortly after, I might. I did have a lovely offer from Isis (at least on the OzRS forum, but I believe he is on here too?) who kindly offered for me to bring it over and have a look with.
    CEyssens likes this.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Now knowing more about your car: If it were me I would just drive it home to Melbourne how it is.
    I would strongly recommend however that if the dreaded "STOP" light on the dash comes up, I would stop and seek further assistance.
    I think your problem will be minor and found quite easily by a mechanic.

    Good Luck

    PS don't forget to post what happens.
    Wildy55 likes this.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    Now knowing more about your car: If it were me I would just drive it home to Melbourne how it is.
    I would strongly recommend however that if the dreaded "STOP" light on the dash comes up, I would stop and seek further assistance.
    I think your problem will be minor and found quite easily by a mechanic.

    Good Luck

    PS don't forget to post what happens.
    Thanks, I appreciate the blue-sky outlook! I really tried to do my research and not get burnt on a bad car (through talking with the mechanic and the previous owner on this forum), so I really hope youíre right.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boffin View Post
    Who hurt you? Why stop at telling me to flatbed the car if I can't 'carefully' read your response? Surely I wouldn't know my red lights from my green lights either and I just flat-out shouldn't be on the road? Hell, put me in an institution for heaven's sake, it's a slippery slope...

    Again, I really appreciate your help, and thanks for those links, but helping someone doesn't give license to act like a pelican if they're not up to your level of knowledge or misunderstand something. It's too hot for that these days. I have done small tinkering on cars before but nothing with the distributor. I'm doing the best that I can. Sorry for ruining your day.

    [...]
    You're not gettin' it. I don't have any long term plans around your existence.

    Your car, your problem. One would also assume your interest to pay attention. After all, why ask if you don't care?

    I recommended a flat bed for your own best interest (car related and otherwise).

    What I explained requires a very basic level of knowledge and I aimed it that way because I don't know what you know or not. But that has nothing to do with the fact that you didn't read it correctly.

    For contrast, what bluey has explained is a step up from my explanation. Judging from your answer that followed I would guess that didn't help much either, because he told you only air leaks downstream of the AFM affect running and you went on to explain you found a leak you patched without realising that was upstream of the AFM. That was why I didn't get into explaining why and what and so on. I gave you a complete checklist that was reiterated in various forms by all others and after going around full circle you still didn't get it.

    Far from me however to deny your right to be dumb, but worry not about my day. I have just fixed my wife's car so can't complain.

    PS. I love pelicans, and pray that metempsychosis works so I can come back as one. Looks like I'm well on my way, thank you.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobomacho View Post
    Warm welcome to aussiefrogs at least from me and keep at it mate. Don't be disheartened by one of the local keyboard warriors. There are still many things to check before you need to trailer it.
    The distributor has a vac line running to a circular diaphragm located on the steel body. You can test it by sucking on it. It should hold vacuum if it is working correctly. Otherwise blocking it you will lose your vacuum timing advance only and cure that leak.

    Just bring up your idle screw to 1k and bring it back home. If the leak was bad it wouldn't idle at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by lozenge View Post
    from my Gti experience I would say (because I used to do it)
    that there's no harm in tweaking the idle screw.
    just keep note of how far and which way you turn it.
    and good luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by joshspug View Post
    Mine recently had a cracked inlet manifold that made this happen, but was a later plastic manifold so it's unlikely to be your problem, should check all intake hoses and gaskets, if you had a crack in one there may be more cracks. There is one under the manifold which is hard to see and get to without taking the manifold off, it could be any off them. Or airflow meter and oxy sensor could also be effecting the idle.
    I would up the idle to see if it made a difference. If you have some air getting in it's not going to fix it much but if it is the immobiliser there is a easy temporary fix.


    Sent from my iPhone using aussiefrogs
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I'm going to be of little assistance, given it is a Peugeot. However, what condition is the battery/alternator in, given the dull lights and dying at idle (from lack of volts to the fuel pump/injectors/electricals)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    The first thing to do is to pull the fault codes, clear them, drive, then pull the fault codes again. This will identify the main issues that the ECU has.




    A. This is a bandaid fix &,
    B. It doesn't always work, for the following reason.

    The 205 GTi TPS is a 3 position switch and not a potentiometer TPS as in pretty much every Peugeot built after the 205. I like to call the three positions idle, run & wide open throttle (WOT). When the throttle is closed the TPS idle switch should be triggered & the ECU adjusts the fueling accordingly. If you wind the throttle open via the adjusting screw you can put the throttle in a closed position where it doesn't trigger the switch & the engine will hunt at idle. The way to rectify it is do a full calibration on the throttle body by setting the throttle plate gap & adjusting the TPS to factory spec.

    The first component to check for idle related issues is the Supplementary Air Device (SAD) which helps with cold start & idle. It should be removed cleaned & tested. It's resting stated is open when cold. You connect 12V to the SAD and after 5 mins the disc inside should have closed the hole. The connector for the SAD also should be checked as the retaining tangs on the contacts can break and the contacts can be pushed out the back of the connector when connecting it causing intermittant or a lackof continuity.

    Holes in the inlet piping will only affect the running of the engine if those holes are between the Air Flow Meter (AFM) and the throttle body. Significant air leaks that cause running issues should be audible.

    Test that the alternator is charging. Also have the battery tested with a proper tester that shows the battery's functional capacity. A battery with 50% of its original functinal capacity can still start & run a car.

    AFM & oxygen sensor issues can cause idle problems too. These should show in the fault codes. Faulty AFMs also drive a certain way, ususally hesitating &/or cutting out.

    The Bosch Jetronic & Motronic systems are now old & components are regularly failing. Good second hand parts are getting hard to find & new old stock even harder. Don't be surprised if EFI components fail on a 205.
    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    Now knowing more about your car: If it were me I would just drive it home to Melbourne how it is.
    I would strongly recommend however that if the dreaded "STOP" light on the dash comes up, I would stop and seek further assistance.
    I think your problem will be minor and found quite easily by a mechanic.

    Good Luck

    PS don't forget to post what happens.

    Well, I had another little look at the car today.

    First up was to re-bodge my previous bodge. The one hole that I found in the intake system that was blindingly obvious was the underside of the pipe from the air filter to the AFM (I think). Due to a missing bracket on the air filter box, and the extra movement of an engine struggling on low idle, it has grinded itself down, resting/rubbing on an edge of the engine near the distributor. I used fabric reinforced duct/gorilla tape the first time (as it was the only stuff I had) and after checking after a few drives, it hadn't fared well. I don't think the temps of it resting against engine components helped. I took off most layers and re did it with a silicone based tape that is rated up to 260 deg. C.

    Next was to go get the battery and alternator checked. 5 mins in the journey and the car was up to its tricks again, much like the last handful of times. Again, I retain, something that's just been serviced by Sydney's best shouldn't be doing this. Worrying and annoying. I managed to pull up to battery world and leave the car idling away. The guy helping said things were fluctuating quite erratically on idle, but returned to normal once the revs were up, probably not an electrical issue in his mind.

    While I was there, I pinched the the hose that I believe goes to the SAD (the one going into the right hand side of the intake pipe between AFM and throttle body) with no change in idle speed or smoothness. Not sure if it means the SAD is working correctly, but I would have thought closing something that would be giving me problems if it was still open might have fixed it if it was indeed the issue.

    It was at that point where I mentioned the next move was to fiddle with the screw on the throttle body. The guy happily got a screw driver and we adjusted 90deg anti clockwise, bringing the idle closer to 1k (just under). Well blimey, WHAT a difference that made. The revs climbed happily to that number and wouldn't really waver. Even when shutting the throttle off quite quickly or engine braking towards an intersection, the revs would drop at a more reliable rate and would purr smoothly at idle like nothing was wrong. After a test of wide open to completely shut, the revs would drop at a steady pace and hover smoothly around the same mark.

    I have taken note of the slight changes this has meant on oil pressure on idle:

    Before, it would have been resting 1/3rd between 1 and 2 on warm idle. Now, it hovers around the 2 (just above/under, depending on if it's settling itself after revs) mark. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but surely the pressure would be up around the same level if I was just trying to keep it from stalling with my right foot? Pressure on revs seemed the same, around the 3/4 mark.

    I didn't see any big difference in oil/engine temps after the adjustment (around one notch under halfway when moving, closer to half if resting for a while), it was mainly pootling around town sort of driving. Not sure if this would have an adverse effect at highway speeds.

    Certainly more confident taking it down to Canberra (I have to shoot Summernats for work) and then Melbourne after, the way it is running now.

    Cheers all for helping, I still welcome anyone to tell me I've made a drastically bad decision in tweaking the idle, but so far it's running great.

    Happy New Year!
    lozenge and Armidillo like this.

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