Incorrectly connected battery - Now no crank, no start - 2007 407 2L HDI
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Thread: Incorrectly connected battery - Now no crank, no start - 2007 407 2L HDI

  1. #1
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    Default Incorrectly connected battery - Now no crank, no start - 2007 407 2L HDI

    I removed the battery from my car (2007 407 2L Hdi) yesterday and put it on a battery charger overnight.

    I was half asleep when I reconnected the battery this morning and I reversed the polarity. Yes I connected the green earth cable of the car to the red positive side of the battery and the red lead on the car to the negative terminal of the battery.

    I got sparks and a lot of heat coming from the positive side of the battery, the earth cable of the car.

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    It must have been connected this way for 10 seconds before I realised what I had done.


    After correctly connecting the battery, I now get no crank & no start.

    I know very silly (happy to accept the dumb ass of the month award). Any ideas on what I have damaged and what I need to do diagnose and fix this.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Have you checked every fuse ?

    Sometimes electronic items have parallel connected protection diodes which are designed to conduct on reverse polarity and "blow" the fuse.

    The alternator may have main diodes destroyed, unless the main charging lead is fused.

    It could be a little or lot destroyed or somewhere in between, however 10 seconds is a long time to maintain reverse polarity.

    I'd start with a full fuse check and go from there.
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    I checked all fuses, they are all ok. Since posting this, I have realised I get no power to any of the fuses (even though the fuses themselves are fine) in the glovebox. What the hell have I destroyed?

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    This diagram suggests there are fuses also in the engine compartment

    Peugeot 407 C (2004 ? 2011) ? fuse box diagram | Auto Genius
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    In my 2l Hdi (2007) 307s (same engine), there are some big fuses in the box with the ECU in the engine compartment.

    It should be the box behind the battery.

    I would disconnect the battery before checking them.

    Cheers
    Roland

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    For clarity, I have checked the fuses in the engine bay, glove box and in the boot. All fuses are good. The entire fuse box in the glovebox does not have any power to it when the ignition is on, the other two test fine.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Is there an engine bay fuse box, with maxi style fuses ?

    Or even fusible links?

    I have no specific knowledge of your vehicle.
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    You may have damaged the alternator diode pack, not going to be good to starting a modern car looking for voltage, diodes would have been forward biased. As mentioned check why internal fuses do not get power.

    I would hope any electronics was input protected, I am always glass half full positive though.
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    You may have burnt the battery out as you have connected the positive terminal directly to earth. Have you checked the voltage on the battery? The battery also needs to be load tested as well will it start another car? If the battery is good you will need to get a 12 volt test light from Supercheap & connect it to earth & follow your wiring from battery to your starter prodding your test meter into the wiring to see if it light up. If it doesn't then you may have burn't out a wire or it may have an in line fuse in the wiring.

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    Do you have ignition lights that come on when you turn the key on? First thing is to check your battery is ok before you look for other problems. If you have jumper leads u can connect the earth lead to the chassis & the positive lead direct to your positive terminal of your starter or positive side of your starter motor or positive side of your starter solenoid that goes to your starter & see if the engine cranks over. Or you can put a screwdriver across the terminals of the starter solenoid & that will crank the engine over if you still have all wiring & fuses intact.

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    I suggest at the very least the ECU is stuffed. Start looking for a replacement. A Lexia will confirm this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Have you checked every fuse ?Sometimes electronic items have parallel connected protection diodes which are designed to conduct on reverse polarity and "blow" the fuse.
    Many relays on modern cars include similar diodes which prevent the voltage ringing when they are turned off. Same situation diodes will conduct a big current if connected reverse polarity which will take out fuses, and they can be damaged before the fuse responds and remain short circuited so even when the polarity is corrected the relays still wont function (may or may not blow fuses still) so you need to check each relay coil on the faulty circuits for correct resistance.
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    You have probably fried your BSI as I did on my 2004 C5 HDI. Not sure how similar these are but I was able to repair a couple. I had blown most of the power connections to the lights, door locks, radio etc. I also repaired a 307 2002 that had done the same with issue. Once repaired a error clean up with Lexia/Planet and no further problems

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    The reversed battery will meet a lot of conducting diodes on its way to self destruction. The BSI and engine ECU are both vulnerable as well. I suggest you start by removing the battery and check that it is still working. Disconnect the alternator output and measure the resistance to ground in both directions to see if the diodes still exist. There are big fuses hidden under the BSI on some models.
    A Lexia will quickly tell you if the BSI or ECU are stuffed and if the +12 exists or is going anywhere.
    You need a very patient auto electrician.
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    Battery is confirmed stuffed, only 9v and 71cca from a one year old 750cca battery. Will put it on the charger.

    I have a new battery.
    Ignition comes on, as do all dash lights, headlights & radio also work.
    Interior lights do not, nor do the front windows, rear windows can only be opened and closed using rear door switches, central locking only unlocks drivers door.
    Still no crank and no start.
    Still getting no power to the fuse box in the glovebox - is this the BSI you refer to?

    Can't do a Lexia scan, my windows notebook has died, again. Anyone in the Bellbowrie area have an XP notebook I can borrow?

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    As I mentioned the first thing to check is your battery. Even a brand new battery wont like being connected positive directly to earth it wouldn't be that hard to blow a cell & you lose 2 volts automatically. I still reckon the best way is to check your wiring from your battery with a test light the old way to see where your power stops to your fuse box at the glove box. If you have even one blown fuse your scan could show a multitude of problems tat could be connected to just one fuse or one part. here is a link about corrosion to BSI which will give you an idea of what you are looking for, It sounds like it controls the functions that you have that are not working too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6i9Iqvoj_w

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    Update: Yes, battery is stuffed. Looks like I am not the only person to incorrectly connect the battery to their Pug/Citroen. Dimi (Dimistyle on the forum) offers a repair service to the BSI for fools like me. He has my BSI and is going to attempt a repair over the next few days. Fingers crossed this gets me going again.
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    Ok update from the BSI perspective. The 2008 BSI uses all surface mounted components (SMD) which I don't have the eye sight to work on and replace. Just tracking down someone that has these skills.

    As far as I can tell the BSI's actual design has not changed its just the components are getting smaller! !

    Dave leave it with me I'll tracked down the components and tech to do the work....so exciting finding a better solution than replacing BSI, ECU, keys, new coding, programming and dealer headaches.




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    I don't have the eye sight to work on
    Get yourself a big table magnifier and couple of 7 watt daylight led mirror back lamps.

    I can successfully work on SMT electronics with this rig and my eyes are far from pristine.

    You will need a reflow system with a vacuum pump to remove solder. Solder wick and solder suckers don't work well on SMT.

    You can end up with the component being desoldered inside solder sucker
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  20. #20
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    Thanks Dimi, not sure what I would have done without your guidance on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by dimistyle View Post
    Ok update from the BSI perspective. The 2008 BSI uses all surface mounted components (SMD) which I don't have the eye sight to work on and replace. Just tracking down someone that has these skills.

    As far as I can tell the BSI's actual design has not changed its just the components are getting smaller! !

    Dave leave it with me I'll tracked down the components and tech to do the work....so exciting finding a better solution than replacing BSI, ECU, keys, new coding, programming and dealer headaches.




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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    You will need a reflow system with a vacuum pump to remove solder. Solder wick and solder suckers don't work well on SMT.

    You can end up with the component being desoldered inside solder sucker
    Alternatively:
    https://youtu.be/tlSY1uaw0GA
    or my personal preference:
    https://youtu.be/dCUSwADP6DE

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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM View Post
    Alternatively:
    https://youtu.be/tlSY1uaw0GA
    or my personal preference:
    https://youtu.be/dCUSwADP6DE
    Anything is possible if you want to do things the "difficult" way.

    And for $150 my reflow system has made the task of servicing and reworking SMT as easy as working with old time discrete components.

    I guess it depends how much you value your time and convenience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post

    I guess it depends how much you value your time and convenience.
    And of course how often you are likely to do such work.

    $150 would be too much investment for the single $6 component I needed to replace a couple months back.
    If I was doing it on a regular basis. Heck yes.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM View Post
    And of course how often you are likely to do such work.

    $150 would be too much investment for the single $6 component I needed to replace a couple months back.
    If I was doing it on a regular basis. Heck yes.
    A $6 smt component ? The entire circuit board is usually worth less than that.

    I do some homebrew projects and most are SMT these days. After trying toothpicks, too big soldering irons and conventional tools, I took the leap and purchased a reflow station.

    It was a good move.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    A $6 smt component ? The entire circuit board is usually worth less than that.
    It was a friends induction cooktop controller. new board around $160 from Stokes. The chip was a rather unusual PWM controller (only available from RS in a multi pack). Turned out the IC wasn't faulty after all, it was just a resistor that I missed. C'est la vie

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