Bought a 504!
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Thread: Bought a 504!

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Bought a 504!

    Dear friends,

    Yesterday my friend bought a 1970 504.
    Bought a 504!-37bd26e1-399d-4945-96d5-bca1d96ecacb.jpgBought a 504!-f42754f6-35d2-4466-abb7-6fc2e4536809.jpgBought a 504!-335d74cd-31d3-4ae6-a447-5b5fa2a5b904.jpg
    It was registered to the first owner since new. Later given to her daughter.

    It had original seats and original door cards. Body was totally repaired and painted because of rust.
    Those seats were so comfortable!! And the car was really spacious. Steering was wobbly and brake pedal juddered when pushed. Something was not right with the steering.
    It did have IRS!! but drum brakes in the rear. No vents in the C-pillar. All the chrome bits were intact.
    It did have a Toyota diesel engine in it but the upside is the Toyota 5 speed gearbox. Had aftermarket A/C and it worked pretty well.
    Both right side doors were sagging a bit. And two window winders were just spinning without raising the glass.
    Driver side window frame was cracked at the base (where the door lock is present). Gotta weld carefully without ruining the chrome trim.

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    Few questions here.
    1. Did the speedo run with a cable?
    2. Any suggestions on how to get the tacho running?
    3. Would be better if the temp sender of the Toyota engine matches the original gauge. Would anyone have the resistant figures of the original sender?
    4. fuel gauge won't bottom when tank is empty. any fixes to this?
    5. Rear diff was a bit oily. Is there any kind of seal that would stop the leak? (had the rear driveshaft boots undamaged)
    6. the clutch went to floor when pressed lightly but when you push it suddenly (pump action), it works well and held the pressure (I initially thought the clutch pump seals were leaking). Is this normal?
    Kuseetha

    1972 VW Bug
    1974 Holden HQ (Restoration project)
    1994 Alfa Romeo 33
    1996 Alfa Romeo 164

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    you lead an interesting life Kuseetha,

    Peugeots with Toyota engines, sounds exotic, the rest of the car, paint and chrome is good, but after that it seems to go down hill ...

    you have kookie mates, all the best with this for him


    ed

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Thanks Ed.

    Later I noted the possibility of tapping the original temperature sender in place of the Toyota sender so that the gauge indicates the temps correctly.
    Biggest worries are the wobbly steering and clutch pedal issues at the moment.
    Kuseetha

    1972 VW Bug
    1974 Holden HQ (Restoration project)
    1994 Alfa Romeo 33
    1996 Alfa Romeo 164

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    Hi Kuseetha,

    The wobbly steering could be many things like worn suspension bushes and steering ball joints but I'd first check the wheels to see if they are straight.
    Jack the car up and spin the wheels to check for this.
    I'd also have the wheels balanced.
    If there is still a problem, then examine all the bushes and replace if worn.
    Also it will probably need a wheel alignment.

    As for the clutch - It sounds like it needs bleeding. The pedal going to the floor but working when pumped is typical of air in the system

    Cheers
    Roland

    Land Rover Discovery 4
    406 Coupe D9 - Manual (2002)
    307 Hdi Estate - Auto - (2007)
    307 Hdi Sedan - Auto - (2007)
    505GR Estate - Personal Import from UK 1971cc Manual (March 1986)
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    The speedo does run by cable.

    The fuel gauge is notorious for being inaccurate. The windings on the in-tank sensor tend to bunch up. I used to just live with it after getting used to how it behaved. Or you could always get a new one (not sure where from).
    I've always wondered if it might be possible to get some resistance wire (from a fuel sender on another brand of car, perhaps ? ) and re-wind the sender unit.

    Degrease the diff, then look at it after driving a few Ks. See exactly where the oil is coming from.
    It may be leaking from where the diff bolts together, or it may be a leaking gasket.

    If it is leaking from a seal, there are additives you can buy to seal engine leaks. They work by causing the oil seals to swell slightly. You may be able to use one of these, but you would have to use less of it, since an engine usually carries about 4 or 5 litres of oil in the sump, and your diff carries about a quarter of that.

    As Roland has said, there may be air in the clutch hydraulics. Try bleeding it. But air will only really enter as a result of stiff seals (due to them getting old). Bleeding may fix it temporarily, but it's probably best to replace the seals in the master and slave cylinders. They only last a few years.

    Bleeding the clutch system is not done the same as bleeding the brakes. People go crazy because they try this and cannot bleed them this way.

    1) Arrange the hoses (there should be a metal one joined to a rubber one) so that they don't have too many twists and turns in them. You want the pipe / hose to look like it goes vertically. Not like a roller coaster, which will stop air bubbles from going upwards.
    Tap them repeatedly with a spanner to get any air bubbles inside to rise to the top. Leave it a minute, then press the pedal a few times.

    Leave 5 minutes (for air bubbles tor rise), then repeat this process.

    OR......

    2) Just open the bleeder nipple on the slave cylinder and leave it for a while. Fluid will drip out. Then try # 1.

    OR

    3) Get a plastic pipe and join the left-hand front brake bleeder nipple to the clutch slave cylinder nipple. You may have to use a small piece of wire wrapped around each one to prevent pressure from blowing the pipe off.

    Open both nipples and pump the brake pedal GENTLY a few times. This way you are REVERSE bleeding the clutch.
    Last edited by Beano; 18th October 2017 at 11:26 AM.

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Thanks Roland and Beano. That is the weirdest clutch bleeding mechanism I have ever heard Got to evaluate the possibility of fitting a slightly larger bore slave cylinder as it is very heavy at the moment. Waiting for the weekend to get busy
    Last edited by kuseetha; 19th October 2017 at 06:01 PM.
    Kuseetha

    1972 VW Bug
    1974 Holden HQ (Restoration project)
    1994 Alfa Romeo 33
    1996 Alfa Romeo 164

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    A heavy clutch ? So you have a Toyota engine and gearbox ?

    Perhaps a different model of Toyota has a larger bore slave ? Good luck getting it to fit......but you never know...

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
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    A larger slave cylinder will reduce the effort at the pedal BUT it will also reduce the amount of travel at the Clutch fork.
    This may result in the clutch not fully disengaging and result in a binding clutch with resultant difficult gear changes.

    Cheers
    Roland
    Land Rover Discovery 4
    406 Coupe D9 - Manual (2002)
    307 Hdi Estate - Auto - (2007)
    307 Hdi Sedan - Auto - (2007)
    505GR Estate - Personal Import from UK 1971cc Manual (March 1986)
    405 Mi16x4 (all the parts ready to install into the LeMans body)

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Unless he can find a larger clutch master cylinder which can be fitted by using an adaptor plate to make the bolt holes line up.

    Better to endure the hard clutch pedal.

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Yup, has a Toyota engine and a 5 speed gearbox. Got to try with the clutch pumps. Hoping a tiny increase in salve bore won't make disengagement problems. But only have to try and see. Worse to come, have to change the clutch master pump too.
    Kuseetha

    1972 VW Bug
    1974 Holden HQ (Restoration project)
    1994 Alfa Romeo 33
    1996 Alfa Romeo 164

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Hi friends,

    Posting after quite a bit of time.
    Here's the problem

    The 504 leaks water in to the driver and passenger footwells from the ventilation panel just in front of the windscreen. I think it has corrosion under that area.
    1. How do you access that area?
    2. Any precautions or any advise when welding that area?
    3. Any thing else to look out during the repair?

    Thanks

    Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
    Kuseetha

    1972 VW Bug
    1974 Holden HQ (Restoration project)
    1994 Alfa Romeo 33
    1996 Alfa Romeo 164

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    My days of 504 ownership are ( hopefully temporarily ) over since I graduated to a 404 so I may be wrong, but the first thing I would check is the plenum chamber drainage vents ( in 404 drains by hose to each front wheel well )

    Blockage of these with leaves etc causes the symptoms you describe

    It also causes the chamber and footwells to rust out in time, but you may get lucky and have a simple fix - unblock the drains

    WOuld be wise to have a good look to see whetther any rust prophylaxis might be needed.

    Good luck

    Andrew

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    To access that area you need to take off the small panel between the windscreen and bonnet.
    If you want to avoid scratching the paint, ideally you should take off the bonnet to do this. However you don't HAVE to.

    Get a pencil and draw around where the bonnet bolts onto its hinges, so that you can bolt it back in exactly the same place.
    Undo the four bolts and pull up the back part of the bonnet as far as it will go. Then do up two bolts so that it stays there.
    Undo the small bolts on the front of the panel I mentioned. It is held in at the back by tabs in slots, so will come out once those bolts are out.

    The problem with water causing rust there is mostly the fact that the sound deadening peels up a bit due to age and water sits underneath where it has peeled up.
    I can't remember where the drain holes are for this section. I think they are big, but they may well be clogged up by leaves.

    If the rust is not too severe, just scrape off the sound deadening and apply more, after treating the rust. I often use a wire wheel to rip into it and take it down to bare metal. If the holes are not too big you don't need to weld them up. Just stick something more on top with a high tech glue/sealant.
    The original stuff was pretty low-tech. 505s had much, much better sealants.

    The plastic mesh at the top stops leaves getting in but the plastic will have broken down and started to disintegrate. You might like to install something different, glued inside the panel. Hard to find the original piece of mesh...

  14. #14
    Tadpole
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    Terrific explanation. Thank you very much

    Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
    Kuseetha

    1972 VW Bug
    1974 Holden HQ (Restoration project)
    1994 Alfa Romeo 33
    1996 Alfa Romeo 164

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Cool.
    Use a chisel to take off that soundproofing.
    Oh, and with the rust on the bottom (inside) part of that panel, which you can only access by lying down on the floor inside the car and looking up......just put some rust converter on it. It will not be not exposed to moisture after you fix the external rust, so it doesn't need perfect treatment.
    I highly recommend wire wheels on an electric drill for removing rust. Smaller is better.

    Just make sure to sweep up all the wire bits.....they get everywhere. Even then, you will later find some have made their way into your socks where they stab you.
    kuseetha likes this.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    And safety glasses are a must when using wire wheels in a drill.
    BIGRR and Beano like this.

  17. #17
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Chisholm View Post
    And safety glasses are a must when using wire wheels in a drill.
    My friend's car and he needs this urgently. So getting it done through a shop but those guys aren't familiar with the model

    Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
    Kuseetha

    1972 VW Bug
    1974 Holden HQ (Restoration project)
    1994 Alfa Romeo 33
    1996 Alfa Romeo 164

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