504 Ti heating up + Fuel economy
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 504 Ti heating up + Fuel economy

    Hi there.

    My new motor has been running pretty sweetly as far as driving goes, but I have a few concerns.

    When actually driving it the temperature is fine, around just where the bottom red zone meets the 'operating zone'.

    But as soon as I have to sit in traffic for any length of time, the temperature begins to creep up at a somewhat alarming rate. I haven't let it get into the red yet but if I sat in traffic long enough I think it might.

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    (As an aside, I did what pugrambo was talking about and checked the fan when the car was hot, with the ignition on the fan is locked.)

    I am thinking of installing an electric fan(s), has anyone gone about this before? Any tips or advice?

    Also, what kind of fuel consumption have you guys experienced with Ti's? From say 16-17 litres of fuel I can get anywhere from 100-140km's. I guess if I drive very carefully I can sqeeze the k's out but I am alarmed at how much fuel I use sometimes. I should probably do an accurate k's/per litre check.

    Sorry to bother you guys any more, but what is considered the definitive oil for Ti's? I have been running Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 but have found out this is possibly to thin, with the oil pressure light coming on at idle after the car has been running for awhile.

    Any help would be much appreciated, my apologies for another thread like this :/.

  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I think you should be running 20W-50...

    That's way too much fuel to be using, similar to what mine's doing. Though I'm told TIs are thirsty around town, and that might be where you're driving.

    On a run, a manual sedan should get about 100kms from 10 litres... but let's now ask the critical question:

    Do you know what your fuel consumption actually is?

    You can't really tell unless you fill the tank, record the mileage, then fill the tank again. Not the nearest dollar, not the first click, but full.

  3. #3
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    as for the cooling issue now that we know the fan is engaging you need to run a fan shroud to allow the fan to direct the air through the radiator

    the shroud acts sort of like a funnel and makes the fan draw the air through the radiator instead of it pulling air from aorund the engine bay into itself

    as for fuel economy TI's will get around 15-17mpg around town and depending on the year model they will get in manual form in a sedan around 26-31mpg on a trip

    early cars use more fuel than later cars

    as for oil peugeot recommend 20/40w oil and as you are running a new motor you shouldn't have any trouble running this oil
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  4. #4
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    Check all your collant pipes, and if possible the radiator aswell.

    A friend of mine warped his head, because there was iron oxide clogging up the radiator.
    There's gotta be a quick way to make sure it's flowing alright, but i'm just not sure what it is.

  5. #5
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    Hi Louis,

    I'd forget fitting electric fans - unless you have aircon and fit a supplementary fan.

    Cars which come factory equipped with electric fans as standard fitment have been through rigourous technical design, develoment and testing.
    Airflow rates are calculated, intake routing and shrouding are develped to cater for varying extremes.

    I've fitted electric fans in lieu of engine driven fans in a 504 and 604. Niether fitment worked well. The only time I saw efficiency improvement was when fitting an electric fan to the front of aircon matrixes in a number of cars.

    With respect to your new engine I assume the following:

    1. the radiator has been reconditioned or renewed.
    2. new thermostat fiited.
    3. the head gasket is fitted on correctly (if fitted wrong way around it will block off water jackets - tel tale is if heater does not emit the usual level of hot air).

    I have always thought that Pugs in general, but up until the last one we had, a 505 GTI (can't speak for the latest pugs), were a tad underdone in the radiator department.

    Can I suggest that instead of wasting bucks on electric fans, consider fitting a heavy duty radiator, ie with extra capacity - look for something with around 30% + more capacity.

    Your problem may be a combination of tight new engiine, blocked radiator, suspect thermostat. Exessive fuel consumption may be related to the later - or bad tuning which may also affect engine temp.

    Sounds like a good prefessional tune up and cooling system check is in order.

    Cheers...... Nick

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    There was a thread on Peugeot cooling sometime ago. My 2nd 504 displayed similar traits, fine until I was stopped.

    Not sure if you want to see how high it goes idling in traffic, but you may find that she will hit a spot and stay there.

    Good idea to get everything checked out, even in these cooler months!

    After market fans can be a good thing, my 505 had a fan at the front and the electro magenetic - if she ever warmed up, I switched on the air con to bring her back to a more manageable rate.

    Regards
    Andrew

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i tested my theory of the fan shroud the other day in the 604 which has been running nice and cool since i gave it a good clean out and put new coolant in and the temp sat higher without the shroud

    going down the street where it normally sits on the cooler side of straight up and down the temp was sitting on the warmer side instead without the shroud around the engine fan

    i was once told by a radiator bloke that the shroud can make the difference between running normal and hot due to the fan not sucking the air through the radiator and instead churning the engine bay air around it

    has the car got a shroud on it ?
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick I
    With respect to your new engine I assume the following:
    I am not actually aware of the engines history, it is more 'new' to my car rather than new itself. It was sourced from a guy in Tauranga. It is not a bad motor though, runs really nicely when you're actually driving it.

    Thanks for your advice, I will have a think about the radiator possibility.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    has the car got a shroud on it ?
    As far as I can tell, no.

    The fan is totally exposed and there appears to be nothing similar to a shroud operating between the radiator and fan.

    This does sound like it could be the ticket, given the situation at hand.

    If anyone has any pics of what the shroud should look like and how it is attached that would be great. I am having trouble visualising what the shroud looks like.

    Are they on all 504/505's? There are no 504 (or even 505s really) in wreckers here, so it will be a bit of a search for one.

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    They need the shroud - as mentioned, without it it just moves air about and doesnt pull it through the rad properly. It was no doubt left off by a lazy mechanic doing the engine transplant . An easy radiator upgrade is a crossflow unit from a 505 GR/SR.

    Tis should be very economical, even with slushbox attached like mine had. Cant remeber the igures, but it was a sh*tload better than my carby equipped 504s!

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis
    I am not actually aware of the engines history, it is more 'new' to my car rather than new itself. It was sourced from a guy in Tauranga. It is not a bad motor though, runs really nicely when you're actually driving it.

    Thanks for your advice, I will have a think about the radiator possibility.
    I think you will have to...

    If that motor has been lying round for more than a few weeks, it will have dumped a pile of rusty junk in the top of your radiator almost as soon as you started it.

    But all is not lost... take the radiator out, at this stage you should be able to get most of the junk out with a good reverse flush.

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    I think you will have to...

    If that motor has been lying round for more than a few weeks, it will have dumped a pile of rusty junk in the top of your radiator almost as soon as you started it.

    But all is not lost... take the radiator out, at this stage you should be able to get most of the junk out with a good reverse flush.

    and once this is done run a stocking in the top hose and clean it out weekly to remove any other gunk floating around in there to ensure a longer life from the radiator

    you can either buy a radiator stocking or just knock off one from the missus that you have damaged with your teeth at some stage
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! 505604's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    and once this is done run a stocking in the top hose and clean it out weekly to remove any other gunk floating around in there to ensure a longer life from the radiator:
    Depending on how much you drive the car (I miss my 504TI ), I would be cleaning every 2 or 3 days for about a month. Mine clogged up too quickly to be left for a week. Better safe than sorry!

    Andrew

  14. #14
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    From 16 litres I managed 115km's.

    This was mostly city/town driving. Lots of sitting in traffic but still a fair bit of actual driving too.

    There was still petrol left, it was just at this point that I thought I was pushing my luck a bit.

    A tune-up is in order no doubt but I may have to accept the fact they aren't the most economical thing for running around the city/town which is the kind of driving I do.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    I get ~400km per tank with the carbie if that helps.

    Allmost all km's done in the city
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    I get ~400km per tank with the carbie if that helps.

    Allmost all km's done in the city.

    shobbz
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  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis
    From 16 litres I managed 115km's.

    This was mostly city/town driving. Lots of sitting in traffic but still a fair bit of actual driving too.

    There was still petrol left, it was just at this point that I thought I was pushing my luck a bit.

    A tune-up is in order no doubt but I may have to accept the fact they aren't the most economical thing for running around the city/town which is the kind of driving I do.

    well that's pretty close to 20mpg

    it should be a little better than that if you are doing a lot of normal running but if it is mainly running around town and traffic running with a little normal running it is pretty well right

    they aren't as economical as people think in running aound the town or city but they should do depending on the year model around 26-31mpg on a trip for a manual sedan and a bit less for an auto
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Like I think I've said before, you can't take any notice of any fuel consumption estimate (and it's no more than an estimate when done like this) unless the tank is filled to the top before and after the miles are covered.

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