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Thread: 306, heater matrix and stop leak

  1. #26
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    I guess the matrix can be regarded as sacrificial at this stage..... I think getting a custom-made matrix with non-plastic pipes with conventional hose clamps makes a lot of sense. Just don't forget how that dash came out....

    What amazes/annoys/frustrates me about this whole class of modern cars, starting with for example Nissan Pulsars and Holden Commodes of the 1980s to show it isn't about French cars, is that the heater matrix is set up to be extraordinarily difficult, i.e. expensive to fix. Given the labour cost in the inevitable replacement, you'd like to think they'd be bullet proof, like my 54 year-old R8 matrix. Alas no.....

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    JohnW

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  2. #27
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    The judicious use of AN20 90 degree barbed fittings will make this fairly easy, the hard part is mating to the matrix, needs some lather work, not that hard really.
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  3. #28
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    Iíve got the matrix out and it has a manufacture date of 110500...



    The leak was from the seals on the angled pipes that join the matrix end tank. The end tank looks fine. The aluminum is almost perfect. The seals were rock hard.

    Not sure why they insist on having a second set of seals when a moulded end tank with the pipes on it would be better.




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  4. #29
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    So all is well with the matrix? That's nice if unhelpful to you at this stage! You mean it leaks where the pipes go into the matrix end?
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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  5. #30
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    Reading this thread I'm crossing all available fingers and toes as I currently have a fully functioning, leak free 306 with full climate control (heat and more importantly A/C). Not sure I have time or patience for a dash removal.
    Although I'm sure it's been done before, I reckon whoever did it left a few bolts undone...

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    So all is well with the matrix? That's nice if unhelpful to you at this stage! You mean it leaks where the pipes go into the matrix end?
    The aluminium tubes and fins are immaculate and the end tank seal is good. Itís all come down to a couple of failed o-rings and plastic inside the car - which disintegrated when a bit of wriggling was done! Iíll add a pic which will show the seals I mean. Itís frustrating that if the end tank and pipes were one piece it would remove a source of leaks. Then the only seals would be engine bay side with the hoses.

    Iím going to keep the car off the road for a bit longer to sort this out properly, Iím not happy with the replacement matrix I bought

    Iíll look to get a valeo matrix and the hose fittings or use an electric matrix.

    My daughter has just got her learners permit and the 306 will be her car to learn in and drive. So it needs to last a few more years. Itíll be hard to give up the 306!

    It looks like a couple of cars use electric heaters - thereís the possibility that a Mercedes A/B series electric heater core will fit. Iím finding out the dimensions.

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F273481657469

    If I use the electric option, to mis-quote from Jaws: ďI think you need a bigger alternatorĒ

    Cheers,

    Chris






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  7. #32
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Makes good sense to me. You don't want to that THAT job twice!! They've grown a bit since we bought the CX then.....

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  8. #33
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    Get some viton o rings they will do the trick and last a lot longer. Quite easy just search for a supplier of o rings they will have them. Lucky girl!

    Plus a good coolant!
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    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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  9. #34
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    Matt, now Iíve given myself more time to fix it viton orings are on the list.

    John, yes the kids have grown quickly and time seems to be flying by! I got to drive a DS as a P plate driver so a Peugeot 306 is not too bad.

    Some pics:

    Old matrix:


    New matrix with dodgy seals:


    Hose for bypassing the matrix ($10 or so from Auto Pro (most useful bit off a Ford falcon):




    Bypass hose temporarily in place:


    Iíll post some pics of the dash out for reference when itís less than 45 in the garage :-)


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  10. #35
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    Fingers crossed the heater matrix in my 00 306 will hang in there for some time to come. And as some of you have already remarked, removal of other things to access such isn't limited to Pugs.
    My B-series Ford Futura has a heater that won't work due to a plastic geared shaft that turns a paddle to channel warm air to the cab. The part is worth about $50 - but there's about $800 in labour to get the dash removed to get at the damn thing.
    Also in this vein, apparently the cars that use the PRV "Douvrin" V6 (Volvo 260s, some Pugs & Renaults and also the DeLorean) require the removal of one exhaust manifold to remove/refit some spark plugs; and the removal/refitting of a headlamp on one side of a Citroen DS requires removal of the entire mudguard on whichever side, left IIRC.
    How boring life would be if working on cars was straightforward...........

  11. #36
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    I need one of those hoses now, removed my box the check for leaks and broke the plastic pipes on engine side. I am growing to hate the cheap plastics they use, going to fabricate metal pipes to replace them, heater is required for Tassie trip 2020!

    Supercheap should have one too I hope and hose like that!
    Last edited by Matthew; 27th January 2019 at 10:50 PM.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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  12. #37
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    Hi Matthew,
    Let me know if super cheap have them!

    DONíT order the one I did - itís for LHD so needs a lot of modifying to fit.

    Cheers,

    Chris


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  13. #38
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    Checked, no joy, Mackey hoses have three stores in Qld and none in the CBD of course, will ring them tomorrow!
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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  14. #39
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    Ordered the hose will keep you informed of a properly engineered solution!
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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  15. #40
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    Right, the plan is to use 6061 aluminium rod, 1 1.4inch diameter and turn this up to fit the bulkhead female fittings using orings. A thread on the end of these will take a plate retained with an12 nuts and use the spring steel retaining clip from original. 90 degree fittings with AN12 to hose barbs using 19mm original (cut off) or replacement hose.

    Will use CAD to design and have a friend / acquaintance who has a CNC lathe and can turn these up, then just assemble.

    Keep you posted. Meanwhile Mackey bypass hose ordered. Car does not run otherwise.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
    306 convertible (gti6 candidate)
    307 HDi wagon
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Right, the plan is to use 6061 aluminium rod, 1 1.4inch diameter and turn this up to fit the bulkhead female fittings using orings. A thread on the end of these will take a plate retained with an12 nuts and use the spring steel retaining clip from original. 90 degree fittings with AN12 to hose barbs using 19mm original (cut off) or replacement hose.

    Will use CAD to design and have a friend / acquaintance who has a CNC lathe and can turn these up, then just assemble.

    Keep you posted. Meanwhile Mackey bypass hose ordered. Car does not run otherwise.
    There might be a market for this.... Nice.
    JohnW

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    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

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  17. #42
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    I must thank my parents for the education and Mr Whitlam for Uni, gratis. No trouble, I have one poor person who is in the same predicament as well. The issue with doing this is why I am not in retail and needs mus when the manufacturer dumps you into issues like this.

    But for friends and acquaintances, its another matter. It might drive me to getting my own small cnc lathe just for things like this! It is one cool toy for an engineer.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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  18. #43
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    Default 306, heater matrix and stop leak

    Look forward to seeing the results Matthew!

    With the heater bypass hose (if you drained the radiator like I did) refilling/bleeding I did the following:
    Poured coolant into the end of the hose marked until full and fitted.


    Then did the same at the top radiator hose and then filled through the bleed plug on the radiator (air intake hose disconnected)


    This meant I could bleed via the bleed screw on the thermostat housing.

    Hereís a panorama shot of the car before refitting the dash:


    And one of the underside of the dash:


    The two power cables (red and brown connectors from memory - theyíre clipped to the bottom of the heater box) need to be routed through the gap arrowed below:



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    Last edited by blahblah; 10th February 2019 at 05:38 PM.

  19. #44
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    This site is getting a tad frustrating. When I opened the link to post #43 all the photos flashed up and disappeared in a fraction of a second and then the links to the individual photos generated a fail notice and "notify the administrator".

    However, Chris, is it back together? Hope so.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    This site is getting a tad frustrating. When I opened the link to post #43 all the photos flashed up and disappeared in a fraction of a second and then the links to the individual photos generated a fail notice and "notify the administrator".

    However, Chris, is it back together? Hope so.

    Cheers
    I was about to post only that I'm seeing just links, but the first four images (?) are showing as attachments. The last one is showing as "IMG_3850.jpg". If I click on that link, I get to see the picture. The other four show the error you described.

    I wonder if there was an error during uploading of the images, or an invalid file type was mistakenly uploaded, and that that's the cause of the problem. Can the OP see his images, or check to see what he uploaded?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    There might be a market for this... Nice.
    I definitely would have been interested - 12 or so months ago when my 306 cabriolet dash was apart because of a leaky heater matrix.

    Andrew
    Current cars: Peugeot 307 HDi Touring; Peugeot 306 Cabriolet; Peugeot 406 HDi, Peugeot 505 Familiale
    Previous cars: 1965 Peugeot 404; 1972 Renault 16TS; 1970 Peugeo 504 1800; 1978 Peugeot 504 GL; 1976 Peugeot 504 LTI; 1984 Peugeot 505 Familiale; 1982 Peugeot 604 (converted to TD) 1999 Peugeot 306 Cabriolet

  21. #46
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    Pipe work is out now and I have a supply of aircraft aluminium that wont corrode and is machinable.

    Only issue alluded to and that I agree with is differential expansion under heat in respect of the two materials, more research required and if not a second hand part is the answer.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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  22. #47
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    Hi Matthew,

    I realise that this is off-topic, but here goes anyway!

    I've been wondering for a while about something in your signature. I obviously don't know 306s as well as I should, but what's the difference between the 306 convertible and the gti6? (I'm talking about engine/drivetrain, before anyone comes up with smart comments. ) I was always under the impression that the two were much the same, if not exactly the same, under the bonnet.

    I look forward to being educated.
    Andrew
    Current cars: Peugeot 307 HDi Touring; Peugeot 306 Cabriolet; Peugeot 406 HDi, Peugeot 505 Familiale
    Previous cars: 1965 Peugeot 404; 1972 Renault 16TS; 1970 Peugeo 504 1800; 1978 Peugeot 504 GL; 1976 Peugeot 504 LTI; 1984 Peugeot 505 Familiale; 1982 Peugeot 604 (converted to TD) 1999 Peugeot 306 Cabriolet

  23. #48
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    Hi All, Iíve sorted the images in the update post #43

    I converted them all to jpeg - thereís an app for that :-)


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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 505604 View Post
    Hi Matthew,

    I realise that this is off-topic, but here goes anyway!

    I've been wondering for a while about something in your signature. I obviously don't know 306s as well as I should, but what's the difference between the 306 convertible and the gti6? (I'm talking about engine/drivetrain, before anyone comes up with smart comments. ) I was always under the impression that the two were much the same, if not exactly the same, under the bonnet.

    I look forward to being educated.
    Andrew
    So as to not take this too far off topic I have sent a PM explaining the main bits.

    As far as Chris' efforts I applaud you, its not that easy isn't it, plenty of broken bits along the way? Nice work. Will ring for metal tomorrow and discuss with machinist mate.
    505604 likes this.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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    407 HDi wagon

  25. #50
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    I glassed mine and they are back in working, car tyre valve cover on the bleed nipple. Actully superglued it then glassed it as super glue is not good at 100 degrees, it melts.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
    306 convertible (gti6 candidate)
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    407 HDi wagon

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