N9TE:Worth it or not?
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Member Platypus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    39

    Default N9TE:Worth it or not?

    Righty,there's one of these critters for sale and I am seriously tempted.However,I am not sure if it's worth the trouble.I have heard that they crack heads even without being worked over and that this is (for all practical purposes)not repairable.
    I am also not particularly impressed with the power output.160 neddies at 7 lbs boost is downright pathetic compared to the likes of an SR20DET.The SR produces 200 hp bog standard (ie.33% more power from a 10% smaller engine).Furthermore the extremely low compression ratio of the N9TE means that off boost driving is likely to be extremely sluggish.This was a common problem with early turbo donks due to the primitive engine management available at the time.Say what you like about Nissans,but they do deliver the goods.
    Anyway,the thought of building a genuine Pug turbo is appealing but I need technical information based on fact or experience.200 hp at the crank at fairly low boost is my personal benchmark.This would have to be achieved with good drivability and reliability and without replacing every component.
    Does anyone KNOW(as opposed to guess)if this is possible?
    Can anyone recommend a good source of further information?

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,265

    Default

    there have been people in the past that have put a turbo on the XN engine so maybe that might be something you can look at

    have a chat to dave mcbean as he has an engine there that used to have a turbo hanging off it even though he never got the turbo with it

    what the power outputs and the like were with this engine i don't know but with a bit of homework and talking to people you may come up with something

    BTW yes the N9TE heads are prone to cracking as are most pug heads from the 404 all the way through the 504 range and the XN engine in the 505 but how far they crack is the concern

    the N9TE head is a different animal and the thing i would be concerned about is parts if you need them and where to get them from

    there were quite a few turbo 505's sold in the US if you need to get anything but also if someone over there wants to part with them as well

    see how you go
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  3. #3
    Member Platypus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Thanks for the tip.I shall annoy Dave forthwith!
    By the way,I have to wonder why all Peugeot heads are prone to cracking.
    I thought Peugeots were supposed to be well engineered.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Posts
    246

    Default crack

    Quote Originally Posted by Platypus
    By the way,I have to wonder why all Peugeot heads are prone to cracking.
    They generally crack only if overheated. They do not like getting hot. I cooked a 404 KF2 Injection engine in 1988 and it cracked badly after that (right up a spark plug hole). Normally they're fine. All the same, I have a brand new KF2 head in a box in case it happens again

    The N9T engine to get is the last of the breed, the N9TEA I think it was called, with electronic wastegate control, a higher CR and officially 180 HP, though some say a properly tuned one (stock tuning) will see the far side of 200 HP.

  5. #5
    Member Platypus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Sooo,maybe the cooling on the N9's needs a bit of attention.Should be possible.
    As for getting a TEA,it's a matter of finding one.There is a TE currently for sale on the forum.A donk in the engine bay is worth two in the ether.
    Anyway,the turbo Jappas operate perfectly well without electric wastegates.
    Sustainable compression ratio(assuming pump fuel)is predominantly dependent on combustion chamber design and appropriate engine management.

  6. #6
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by M. Tippett
    They generally crack only if overheated. They do not like getting hot. I cooked a 404 KF2 Injection engine in 1988 and it cracked badly after that (right up a spark plug hole). Normally they're fine. All the same, I have a brand new KF2 head in a box in case it happens again

    The N9T engine to get is the last of the breed, the N9TEA I think it was called, with electronic wastegate control, a higher CR and officially 180 HP, though some say a properly tuned one (stock tuning) will see the far side of 200 HP.

    actually Mike all the XN heads crack between the plug and valve

    it depends on how hot they get as to whether it travels up the plug hole or not but everyone one of them has a crack there somewhere
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! zac505's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Platypus
    Can anyone recommend a good source of further information?
    I recall reading a couple of posts from some US guys a little while back who were raving about the performance of their STXs. Maybe chase them up.

  8. #8
    Member Platypus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Ta.I'll check it out.

  9. #9
    Gus
    Gus is offline
    Fellow Frogger! Gus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    600

    Default

    I daydreamed about importing one once. The problems I'd forsee are:

    - Wiring if you didn't have computers, etc. I think the wiring loom is only partially related to 505 STI/GTI (although definitely easier than the huuge mess that is a Silvia loom.)

    - Registration. No car ever had an N9TE in Oz, so you could be up for some expensive checks like emmissions if it came to it (don't know for sure, but I'd talk to an engineer.)

    - Spares

    (Although, on the note of spares. I'm told there's a guy in Vic somewhere who imported an N9TE but bent the crank trying to tow start it (or something) and never got a crank replacement. Assuming this isn't the same engine (I hope not!!) that means there might be a cheap second engine you could buy for parts. Or even if a Vic car which is already engineered for an N9TE...

    IMHO, I think you can get an N9TE in & running in a 505 for less fuss and cost than a Jap motor like an SR20, but you might run into more issues actually getting it on the road and driving it round (see aforementioned problems.)


    .. On the note of performance, the N9TEs are - according to their owners in the US - woefully undertuned from the factory and huge performance increases are possible just with boost and other tunings. I used to have some videos on my computer at home of a 505 Turbo in the US street racing various cars, including an MR2 turbo. That car flew. I also had a video of it making large black circles in a car park. .

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    303

    Default

    Hi Guys,
    I'm the guy with the N9TE for sale. At the risk of being biased I have a few comments on on what's been posted in this thread.

    The engine as it was installed by the factory has a few downfalls. It has a very small intercooler which is installed in the engine bay on top of the turbo. It receives very poor airflow and wouldnt do much to keep intake temperatures down. It has a restrictive airflow path from the aircleaner thru the aiflow meter to the turbo which itself has a small inlet. And last but not least it was built in the 1980's using technology of the time which included a Bosch L-Jetronic with additional computers piggy backed onto it to contol the ignition and another to retard the ignition on boost. It was probably a good attempt for the time and I think it is very unfair to compare it to the technology of today.
    There is no reason why you could not apply todays technolgy to it and gain additional HP, Drivability and Durability.

    i.e. .
    1 Improve inlet path and replace Airflow meter with Map sensor
    2 Install a more modern Turbo
    3 Replace engine management with a modern programable type Autronic or Motec)
    4 Install big front mounted intercooler

    Maybe then you could compare. There are rumours on US websites of this motor obtaining 400HP in race trim albeit probably with a very short life.

    The is a lot of information in the US on this engine but they appear to be very agricultural with their modifications and nobody has done what I have suggested above.
    Do a search on peugeot N9TE . I think Jim Lill ran a forum on this engine for a number of years.

    In relation to the damaged engine around it is not mine. I know who has it and it probaly is available for spares. I believe it was damaged because of lack of oil to the main bearings caused by damaging the sump trying to install it without the correct front cross member (which I have).

    If anyone has any other questions or information let me know

    Jarrod

  11. #11
    Member alan_505's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Melbourne,Victoria,Australia
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Hi,

    The motor that bent the crank was mine, the front crossmember I used was a modifed standard one to clear the crank pulley because the N9T motor is longer than the other Peugeot motors, the main crossmember has no problems clearing the sump. My sump was modified to increase ground clearance because in standard form the sump of the N9T motor hangs below the main crossmember by more than 25mm. The crank bent whilst trying to tow start the engine as I had a flat battery at the time, after the engine was pulled down it was discovered that the engine rebuilder had set it up wrong in that there was not enough oil to the thrust bearings and this why my crankshaft bent. My motor had 92mm (std bore is 91.8mm) forged pistons and head work (that seemed to make the motor a little peaky) it was running Autronic with an ramtube unifilter, the standard intake and exhaust including the small intercooler, I had to slightly modify the the exhaust to clear the steering column, on a dyno it was getting 98Kw @ 4500rpm and 800Nm @ 4500rpm at the wheels. EAI was able to get parts from Europe for the N9T motor. The Chrysler Centura 4 cylinder uses the N7 motor which is a shorter sroke version of the N9T, the main differences are, the block does not have the oil outlet for the turbo feed and the flywheel only has 5 bolts compared to 7 on the N9T. So you could use the head from Centura.
    The car that the motor was in now has an even fire 2850cc V6 and has been sold to a PCCV member.

    Alan

  12. #12
    Member Platypus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jarrods
    Hi Guys,

    There is no reason why you could not apply todays technolgy to it and gain additional HP, Drivability and Durability.

    i.e. .
    1 Improve inlet path and replace Airflow meter with Map sensor
    2 Install a more modern Turbo
    3 Replace engine management with a modern programable type Autronic or Motec)
    4 Install big front mounted intercooler

    Do a search on peugeot N9TE . I think Jim Lill ran a forum on this engine for a number of years.

    Jarrod
    You make some good points,but your suggestions involve sizable wads of cash.At a guess;- 1/Basically,complete replacement of the induction tract.Estimate around $1,000?
    2/Cheap enough if a secondhand Nissan/Garrett unit is used.$400?
    3/Ecu with installation and dyno tune.$2,000 plus.No question mark.
    4/Could be done for anywhere betwwen $500 and $1500 depending on choice of unit.

    Bottom line is 4 to 5 grand on top of the cost of the engine conversion.
    I don't think this is an unrealistic estimate(correct me if I'm wrong).
    Mind you,the results would be good.

    I've tried searching online but so far I haven't found much useful info.
    BTW Jarrod,could I have the year/month of manufacture from you or if this is unknown just the engine number?The reason I ask is because the ADR requirements for emissions and such depend on the date of manufacture of the engine.
    Cheers,Pete.
    Last edited by Platypus; 29th April 2004 at 11:52 AM.

  13. #13
    Member Platypus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Alan,if you were going to part with this donk how much would you want and what would it include?Spares are always handy.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Platypus
    You make some good points,but your suggestions involve sizable wads of cash.At a guess;- 1/Basically,complete replacement of the induction tract.Estimate around $1,000?
    2/Cheap enough if a secondhand Nissan/Garrett unit is used.$400?
    3/Ecu with installation and dyno tune.$2,000 plus.No question mark.
    4/Could be done for anywhere betwwen $500 and $1500 depending on choice of unit.

    Bottom line is 4 to 5 grand on top of the cost of the engine conversion.
    I don't think this is an unrealistic estimate(correct me if I'm wrong).
    Mind you,the results would be good.

    I've tried searching online but so far I haven't found much useful info.
    BTW Jarrod,could I have the year/month of manufacture from you or if this is unknown just the engine number?The reason I ask is because the ADR requirements for emissions and such depend on the date of manufacture of the engine.
    Cheers,Pete.
    Pete,

    The engine number is an aluminium plate that is rivited to the engine block. If I remember correctly when Alan registered his car they made hime stamp the block. I doubt if the registration people would have a clue about engine numbers for these engines. There is also the number 83 welded to the block on the opposite side of the engine. I have no idea whether this refers to the year.
    The engine numbers is as follows. There are two plates
    INA 03 001258
    and
    176 Type B
    Type Regi P

    I have no idea what they mean. (See photos)

    As for your prices to get it on the road I reckon you could do it for a bit cheaper if you used a second hand turbo and intercooler. The pipework is cheap if you do it yourself but time consuming. Your guess on the engine management is about right. Alan might be able to help you out with a base map is you choose an autronic unit. There is also no reason why all this has to be done straight up. It could be developed over a number of years. (still costs the same though). Bottom line is modifying cars costs money. Just look at how much people that visit this site spend. You wouldnt even go close.
    If you went the Jap engine option I honestly dont thing you would save any money. A lot of the above you would still have to do Plus a gearbox/clutch conversion, Engine mounts, Extensive engineers report. The list goes on.

    At the end of the day the choice is up to you.

    I also did a google search on Peugeot 505 Turbo, and Peugeot N9TE and came up with several leads. The information is there but it takes a while to find.

    Jarrod
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails N9TE:Worth it or not?-100_0157-1.jpg   N9TE:Worth it or not?-100_0168-1.jpg  

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    303

    Default

    Photos didnt seem to work. Can anyone help. or it might be easier to email them

    Jarrod

  16. #16
    Member Platypus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Thanks Jarrod,the numbers should be good enough without flash photos.
    I have found info on the net but a lot of it is bog basic and not much use.
    Frankly,the main thing that concerns me is the durability of the head.Repairs of that nature aren't my idea of fun.If it don't go,it's no good.

  17. #17
    con
    con is offline
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    sydney, nsw, australia
    Posts
    515

    Default

    I have a copy of the official "Technical Description/Spec" for the N9TE in pdf form, if ayone is interested. It is quite big (about 10MB).



    con.... 0428 406 505

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •