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Thread: 504 Ti won't start

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 504 Ti won't start

    Well, kind of.

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    I have just put it back together having blown the head gasket. It it firing but it won't catch and run. I did actually get it to stagger into life once and once it caught on all four cylinders it ran perfectly. Idled fine, ran cleanly through the rev range. Then I switched it off and it hasn't gone since. It's firing and trying to run. I'm out of ideas on what might be wrong. It has plenty of fuel at the injectors. The coil, condensor and spark plugs are all new. Points gap is ok.

    I'm getting close to giving up...
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  2. #2
    Member Cruise504's Avatar
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    Don't give up! Are the leads on the right way round? Firing order is 1-3-4-2, cylinder 1 is at the rear, dizzy turns clockwise as you look down at it. In mine, when the rotor is firing on cylinder no.1, it points in the direction of the throttle butterfly. Just to confirm, plug gap should be 22-24 thou, point gap 16 thou. To convert to metric just multiply each thousandth of an inch by 0.0254.




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    1976 504 Ti
    1997 106 GTi (NZ daily driver)

  3. #3
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    Everything electric is new and correct. We did persuade it to stagger into life once and once running it was perfect... until I switched it off

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruise504 View Post
    Don't give up! Are the leads on the right way round? Firing order is 1-3-4-2, cylinder 1 is at the rear, dizzy turns clockwise as you look down at it. In mine, when the rotor is firing on cylinder no.1, it points in the direction of the throttle butterfly. Just to confirm, plug gap should be 22-24 thou, point gap 16 thou. To convert to metric just multiply each thousandth of an inch by 0.0254.




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    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Injection pump belt failure is quite common and at one stage the belts were in short supply and expensive.

    Congratulations on your decision to get it back on the road.

    504 Tis are getting rarer by the year.
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Separate the problem into two : Is it spark or fuel ?

    Squirt some "Start Ya Bastard" (or perhaps just a bit of petrol) into the air intake. If it fires for a few seconds, it was a fuel prob.

    I don't like points. It's probably them. You said they're set ok, but are they clean ? And don't forget that setting them changes the timing a bit.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Take an injector line off at the injector end and crank it over and see if any fuel is getting through, take a lead off and check for spark. That will lead you to fuel or electrical.

    Having some exposure to TI's over the years have seen several with a hole in the main diagram in the pump which causes very poor to no running. These are super expensive to get now and I think the last one I got came from Germany.

    Good luck, a good running TI is a great thing!

    Ben
    1988 Peugeot 505 GTI Wagon
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    1994 Peugeot 405 Mi16

    1995 Peugeot 405 SRDT - Retired
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL
    1985 Peugeot 505 SRDT




  7. #7
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    Is the cold start injector working? Should dump a lot of fuel into the plenum quite quickly. It has an electrical feed from the starter solenoid and its own fuel line.

    I got pretty much these symptoms when mine ( on 404 KF2 ) stopped working recently

    L'Aventure Peugeot have made a new batch of drive belts for the injection pump. They are about $200.00 but are worth having in the collection as they are not going to be any easier to get in a few years. [email protected]

    They also have repair kits for the injector, but it may be something simple like the electrical or fuel feed.

    Good luck

    Andrew

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    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Pull the wire off the fuel atomizer (At the firewall end of the inlet manifold), if running a bit rich, when hot, the atomizer will flood the motor and it will not start.
    Once flooded you are probably better to pull the plugs out and let the fuel evaporate.

    Also I fitted a new distributor cap a couple of years ago and found the center carbon brush was sticking inside the cap and not bearing on the rotor.

    Good Luck
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

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    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  9. #9
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    Are they the RIGHT plugs? I can't remember the number but it is a heat range different to the carby cars and contributes to hard starting. As BIGRR said,try starting with that wire off.

  10. #10
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    BP6ES. Can someone confirm this?


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    1976 504 Ti
    1997 106 GTi (NZ daily driver)

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Many (30+) years ago I was bailed up at home by a 504TI that refused to start. It ran fine before that. I asked around and was told that the injector timing belt was probably knackered. To cut a long story short, the belt was fine, but I replaced it anyway, having come that far. In the end, it turned out that the fuel filter near the tank was blocked. Not sure how that happened or why it would affect proceedings so suddenly. Perhaps I had filled up with a crook load of fuel? Anyhow, it would be worth checking your filter - just in case. Good luck!
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  12. #12
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    Are they supposed to be BP5ES ?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewD View Post
    Many (30+) years ago I was bailed up at home by a 504TI that refused to start. It ran fine before that. I asked around and was told that the injector timing belt was probably knackered. To cut a long story short, the belt was fine, but I replaced it anyway, having come that far. In the end, it turned out that the fuel filter near the tank was blocked. Not sure how that happened or why it would affect proceedings so suddenly. Perhaps I had filled up with a crook load of fuel? Anyhow, it would be worth checking your filter - just in case. Good luck!
    Apparently the ryco type filters are glued and the internal filter piece can come loose and block the flow. Someone I consider to be a good source recommended the Purflux type for that reason.


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    1997 106 GTi (NZ daily driver)

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    The man said he had fuel arriving at the injectors. However just out of interest here is an earlier post on filters:


    Crook Fuel Filter



    STEER CLEAR of this Super Cheap item.

    This filter was fitted to my 1973 Peugeot 504Ti, immediately before the fuel injection pressure pump and the fuel tank. The filter had been fitted for maybe (?) 12 months, and the car runs on unleaded 98 always.
    Last night on my way to the Pug meeting in very heavy traffic at Concord Sydney the car stopped, NO fuel at motor.

    Pug member Steve V6 and I traced it to the filter.

    Luckily I had a spare to fit and get back underway.

    On inspection of the removed filter I found that the inlet section on the tank side had semi dissolved (?) collapsed and blocked off all fuel flow!!!!!! (See attached photographs).

    Not happy last night, it was 35 degrees.
    Cruise504 likes this.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  15. #15
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    Well, that pisses me off. The brand new Bosch coil had failed...
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Blimy ! A Spear and Jackson it was, too !

    (Monty Python reference)

    Oh well. You get that...
    1915 type 153 and Roland like this.

  17. #17
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    I really hoped that these things don't happen...and when I get back home, Mr Supercheap can refund me for a coil which clearly wasn't fit for purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    Blimy ! A Spear and Jackson it was, too !

    (Monty Python reference)

    Oh well. You get that...
    Last edited by 1915 type 153; 22nd April 2017 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Dumbarse can't spell
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Very annoying but a straight forward fix. Great news.

  19. #19
    Member Cruise504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    Well, that pisses me off. The brand new Bosch coil had failed...
    I recently bought a Bosch GT40 and that seems a good fit for mine, if that helps!


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    1976 504 Ti
    1997 106 GTi (NZ daily driver)

  20. #20
    WLB
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    This is a timely thread.

    My late father's 1974 TI has been sitting in my shed since the middle of 2014, when it was last driven. Graham Wallis serviced it for Dad just over 6 years ago. (How time flies). After that it wasn't used much and Dad went into care about 2 years later. From then until mid-2014, I would start it and give the engine a run up to temperature about once a month. Then when it was time to drive it home to my place in 2014, I only drove it a couple of blocks. The brakes didn't feel quite right and the thermofan wasn't cutting in, and 75km of 100kph driving lay ahead, so I borrowed a trailer and towed it home. That was the last time it ran. I foolishly didn't start it periodically. I just kept the battery charged.

    Yesterday I put some fresh petrol in the tank, which was virtually empty, and tried to start it. It turns over OK, and you can hear the fuel pump, but it will only fire if you give it a squirt of Aerostart, but doesn't continue. That's as far as I got before I ran out of time.

    My next step was going to be the removal of a fuel hose to get some fresh fuel up to the engine.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    Could be seized pistons in the hydraulic head. Easy to get at but you will need the gasket unless you're lucky.

    Crack the lines at the injectors and see if it's getting fuel. If not, it's the above....in all likelihood.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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  22. #22
    WLB
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    Thanks Mike.
    Fingers crossed.

  23. #23
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    Or it might be as simple as a blocked filter at the bulkhead. Check you have fuel getting to the injector pump before you pull anything to bits

    Quote Originally Posted by WLB View Post
    Thanks Mike.
    Fingers crossed.
    FedGrapes likes this.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  24. #24
    WLB
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    Or it might be as simple as a blocked filter at the bulkhead. Check you have fuel getting to the injector pump before you pull anything to bits
    I pulled the filter out this afternoon. The element wasn't blocked but the petrol in the bowl was quite dark. It might be as simple as very stale fuel in the system and not enough pumping time to flush it back through the return line.
    I'll get a new element and run the fuel pump with the line off at the injection pump to make sure I've got fresh juice all the way through, and try again.

    I'm still annoyed with myself for not continuing to run it periodically after bringing it home. I was even surprised when I worked out how long ago it was that Graham serviced it for Dad.
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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    My Ti sits in the garage with a trickle charger on it. I might start it 2 - 3 times a year. Starts first crank every time!
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


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