Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh!!

[WLB]

Just spotted this in The Age Drive lift-out (22nd April).
The 106 replacement will be the 1007 and the 206, the 2007!
Peugeot is quoted as saying that the change is needed to reflect "market fragmentation" and to cater to customers' "new expectations". And here was me wondering how long it would be before the 09s ran out at the present increased model rate, and what would happen then. Would they do what Bristol did and just press on to _10 and _11.

Advertisement

And I did check the calender, and it is 3 weeks late for an April Fools' joke. Maybe this will permit the zero to remain once the teens are entered. But why so early? Oh, sorry, they already told us. Market fragementation.

Warwick.

[pugrambo]

yes but they have also done themselves out of numbers

the first of the 500 series was a 504 and the last was a 505

the 405 took the 505's spot in the market and hence there will be no more 500 series cars

the 600 series skipped the 606 and went from 605 to 607

the 600 series is not a big selling series as it is generally the flagship series

the 500 series was the mid sized family car which is now the domain of the 400 series which used to be the smaller family car series

be interesting to see how it all goes

be sad to see the end of the 3 digit system

it all has meaning regarding the size of the car and what number it is in the series line up

why they started at 504 in the 500 series we may never know

[WLB]

yes but they have also done themselves out of numbers

the first of the 500 series was a 504 and the last was a 505

the 405 took the 505's spot in the market and hence there will be no more 500 series cars

the 600 series skipped the 606 and went from 605 to 607

the 600 series is not a big selling series as it is generally the flagship series

the 500 series was the mid sized family car which is now the domain of the 400 series which used to be the smaller family car series

be interesting to see how it all goes

be sad to see the end of the 3 digit system

it all has meaning regarding the size of the car and what number it is in the series line up

why they started at 504 in the 500 series we may never know

I'm pretty certain that the last digit is for the place in the overall evolution, hence if they considered that the new model was bigger than the 404 then it would be a 500 and if it used a design that they considered to sit at the same general point in their design evolution (no big jump, new engine design or whatever) it would also be an 04. Hence the gaps. There was a lot of speculation that the 406 would a 506 because it was known to be bigger than the 405.

But they're French. Just when you think you've got the system figured out, they change it a bit. Where the hell did the 809 come from?

Warwick.

[XTC]

Check out http://www.peugeot.ru/en/Default.asp there is a part about 1007 there.

- XTC206 -

[pugrambo]

i have always been lead to believe that the first number is the class/size of car and the last number to be the number of models they have had along that series line up

so

201
202
203 all small cars and all in order of production
204
205
206

100 series was the same except some of them are bikes (very small car)
300 series was the same
400 series was the same
500 series had 2 504 and 505
600 was the same bar the omision of the 606

800 series is a racing series

[XTC]

Mini james bond car .. 1007

- XTC206 -

[Pug307]

For Peugeot, Numbers are Sacred...

Below is the press release located at the link above.

19 April, 2004

<TABLE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 10px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left><TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: #000000 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #000000 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 1px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px; BORDER-BOTTOM: #000000 1px solid" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 align=left bgColor=#eeeeee border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12px; BACKGROUND: #999999; COLOR: #ffffff; BORDER-BOTTOM: #000000 1px solid" align=middle>Image Gallery </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle> </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>For Peugeot, identification of its different car models by means of numbers featuring a central 0 is an integral part of its genetic make-up.

However, in response to market fragmentation and the consequent need for a wider range of products, each with strong distinguishing features, Peugeot has decided to expand its naming system by doubling the central 0.

The inauguration of this four-digit naming system coincides with this year’s launch by Peugeot of a new, original and innovative model that will be positioned as an extension of its existing range.

Three digits, starting with the 201...

201, 203, 205, 306, 407, 504, 607, etc: numbers taken at random from Peugeot’s history, numbers that resemble one another but never say the same thing. In fact, each clearly identifies a model of the Marque thanks to a system which dates back to the 201, presented at the Paris Show in 1929.

This system, based on the famous central 0, is universal. Understood in every country, it is a keystone of Peugeot’s international renown.

This system has continued to prove its worth and has accompanied every new development made by Peugeot. It allows virtually unlimited identification, not least due to the fact that when the time comes, it will be possible to start over again from the beginning.

A sign of recognition

The 3-digit identity is an essential component of Peugeot’s brand identity. Conveying a very positive image for the company, the system evokes quality, technology and performance. Approved by customers around the world, this numbering system operates as a sign of recognition and makes it easy to differentiate between models in the range: a central zero with a number on either side. It has not changed since the launch of the 201, and provides three items of information about the model concerned:

[SYMBOL] The first number indicates the family to which the vehicle belongs, its size in the range. [SYMBOL] The second digit – always 0 – is the link between the number denoting membership of a particular family and that denoting a particular generation. [SYMBOL] The third figure indicates the generation of the model.

Numbers... and sometimes letters

In response to the growing range of products, and with the new expectations of customers and their specific preferences in mind, Peugeot has added a new dimension to its numbering system.

Within the Peugeot car range, each family (of which there are currently six) is composed of different silhouettes designated by the same 3-digit number, with special symbols added as and when required. Such is the case for example of the Coupé Cabriolet silhouette, designated by the letters CC, and the family/leisure silhouette, identified by SW.

”For each family of models, we apply a strategy which is like a daisy flower, surrounded by individual petals. Therefore, around a central model, we mimic the individual petals. This system, already applied to the 206, 307 and 407, is simple and clear,” explains Frédéric Saint- Geours, the CEO of Peugeot.

More and more numbers...

Anticipating the future expectations of customers and their increasingly diverse tastes, Peugeot is continuously expanding its product range. To complement its traditional range, Peugeot will be proposing a number of new models.

To identify these specific models clearly, Peugeot has chosen to expand its numbering system. Therefore, the Marque will assign to these models a number with four digits instead of three, with a double central zero.

This new development of the numbering system – in the strict sense – was tested in 2003 with the Peugeot 4002, in the context of the 2nd Peugeot Design Competition.

The new system will feature very shortly for the first time on a new production model.

An original vehicle, based on a single-volume architecture, derived from the Sésame concept car presented at the 2002 Paris Motor Show, will in its final livery display a number with a double central 0, preceded by a 1, designating the family to which it belongs, and followed by a 7 indicating its generation in a chronological sense.

The 1007, since this will indeed be its name, will be presented to the public before the end of this year.

After the 407 saloon and its alter ego the 407 SW, and after the 307 saloon, the 1007 will illustrate in striking fashion the acceleration of the Peugeot product range announced for 2004.

31 three-digit numbers, starting with the 201

201
301
401
601
302
402
202
203
403
404
204
504
304
104
604
305
505
205
309
405
905
605
106
306
206
406
806
607
307
807
407

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[nchandler]

No sir, I don't like it. What happened to Peugeots looking understated, elegant, and sporting - ie. 306.

I don't mind the 307 - decent looking car in 2 door XSI trim, silver or black of course. 206 looked nice in GTi form, not much else. But 407 looks horrid, 1007 looks horrid, and whilst the former 2 looked nice, they certainly weren't a patch on 306/205/405 in terms of their aesthetic appeal to me, they all look like they'd struggle to go fast these days....

Nick

[rek]

800 series is a racing series

yeah this is pretty sporty





Wasn't that Le Mans car a 905?

[Pug307]

All these x007s, gee is it a golden opportunity for Peugeot to be in James Bond

Imagine James Bond getting away from the baddies in a banana yellow 1.4 HDi 1007

[Jez 405]

yeah this is pretty sporty





Wasn't that Le Mans car a 905?

Lol!

Mmmm.... Peugeot 905.... *drool*

[pugrambo]

yeah this is pretty sporty





Wasn't that Le Mans car a 905?

yeah i wasn't thinking too well when i posted that

800 series people movers and 900 for racing

[WLB]

i have always been lead to believe that the first number is the class/size of car and the last number to be the number of models they have had along that series line up

so

201
202
203 all small cars and all in order of production
204
205
206

100 series was the same except some of them are bikes (very small car)
300 series was the same
400 series was the same
500 series had 2 504 and 505
600 was the same bar the omision of the 606

800 series is a racing series

Not quite, 'rambo. The last digit is where it sits in the evolution of the entire range. That's why the last numbers are always close across the range at any given time. At the moment they are all 06 or 07. The 06s soon get replaced by 07s, one at a time. If they don't produce a particular size car at a certain time, then that number never appears. Hence the gaps in the 500 and 600 series for example. But then there are the anomalies. There was no 503, but the 504 was hardly a bigger car than the 403, so why was it a 403 not a 503? It's not helped by the fact that a replacement model doesn't always replace. In the past at least. They often overlapped. If the sales of the predecessor were good, it stayed in production beside its replacement. And then there was the practice in the 60s (I think) of mixing body shells and interiors between a replacement and its successor to produce a cheaper hybrid. We also had the earlier practice of identifying changes in a model run. 403B, 203C, 505 Series 2, etc. (Or were these local designations?).
The racing series were the 900s from memory. Brabham (the younger) drove a 90_ at LeMans. The 800s are people movers, hence no early 800s. Aren't all cars are people movers? We used to have minibuses and microbuses, but somewhere a marketing type must have thought people mover said it better. Probably the same guy who came up with multi function polis. (Next we'll probably be calling 4 wheel drives something ridiculous like maybe SUV).
The 809 is built in Asia somewhere (China?).

Pug307's posting is interesting, but it's still the output of the marketing department which says bugger all in as many words as possible. (Is that what I've just done myself?).

Maybe one of the legion of English speaking secret readers of this forum in the bowels of PSA would like to break their silence and shed a little light on the matter for the benefit of we colonial admirers of their wares.

Warwick.

[pugrambo]

when we had the 203 and 403 over lapping each other where was the 603 for example ?

the last number i have always been lead to believe is to designate the model in that particular series

BTW have you noticed that the only time they were all 04's and all in production was the 104,204,304,404,504 and 604

this was i think the first time this has ever happened and we may never see this ever again

up to the 5th car of each series all bar the 500 series had run in order

yes most of the time the last number is pretty close at a point in history of the manufacturing and selling of these cars but that is more coincidence as numbers tend to follow each other

there was a huge gap between the 404 and 405 and they were two very different cars mechanically and in design but they still followed on

still the 405 and 406 put the end to the 500 series which was basically only a stop gap series to fill in where the 404 left off and something was needed to get peugeot into the 70's car market

the trouble is the 3 digit number system was always going to come to and end somewhere and if they use letters at the end like say 203C or 403B, they have already been used and would create a little confusion

be interesting to see how it all pans out

[graham66]

All these x007s, gee is it a golden opportunity for Peugeot to be in James Bond

Imagine James Bond getting away from the baddies in a banana yellow 1.4 HDi 1007

Well yeah I can actually! In For Your Eyes Only (1981) after Bond's Lotus is blown up, he escapes in a banana yellow 2CV, which he manages to drive skillfully to outmaneuver thugs in twin black Peugeot 504 Ti sedans. (Great scene!)

AND in A View to a Kill (1985) he steals a Renault 11 taxi in Paris to chase down an assassin

No Volvos that I'm aware of 'though - imagine Bond in a towelling hat and mower handles hanging out the boot

[WLB]

Well yeah I can actually! In For Your Eyes Only (1981) after Bond's Lotus is blown up, he escapes in a banana yellow 2CV, which he manages to drive skillfully to outmaneuver thugs in twin black Peugeot 504 Ti sedans. (Great scene!)

AND in A View to a Kill (1985) he steals a Renault 11 taxi in Paris to chase down an assassin

No Volvos that I'm aware of 'though - imagine Bond in a towelling hat and mower handles hanging out the boot

Ah, Volvos. Now they used to use a very easy to follow system. The first number was the series, the second the number of cylinders and the third, the number of doors. That gave us 164, 244, 245 and so on.

Warwick.

[Wazza]

201
301
401
601
302
402
202
203
403
404
204
504
304
104
604
305
505
205
309
405
905
605
106
306
206
406
806
607
307
807
407

I was told that Peugeot started numbering thier cars with two digits and that for some models the hole for the crank handle was right in the middle of the two digits. The public began to use the hole as a central digit calling the 21 model the 201 (or whatever model it was) and thus Peugeot followed suit and added the central 0 to all subsequent models.

[XTC]

Ah, Volvos. Now they used to use a very easy to follow system.

BMW system used to be easy too .. but then they went and broke the rules ...

- XTC206 -

[WLB]

201
301
401
601
302
402
202
203
403
404
204
504
304
104
604
305
505
205
309
405
905
605
106
306
206
406
806
607
307
807
407

Wazza,

I was told that Peugeot started numbering thier cars with two digits and that for some models the hole for the crank handle was right in the middle of the two digits. The public began to use the hole as a central digit calling the 21 model the 201 (or whatever model it was) and thus Peugeot followed suit and added the central 0 to all subsequent models.

Not sure that that's right. I'll check a book I've got. The Porsche 911 was originally going to be a 901, but the story goes that Peugeot objected and only a handful badged 901 were built before the middle 1 was added. But if that's true, why didn't they bother with Bristol or Mazda?

And thanks for the correction. Of course it is the 309 (not 809) that's the odd one.

Warwick.

[SLC206]

I was told that Peugeot started numbering thier cars with two digits and that for some models the hole for the crank handle was right in the middle of the two digits. The public began to use the hole as a central digit calling the 21 model the 201 (or whatever model it was) and thus Peugeot followed suit and added the central 0 to all subsequent models.

Hmmm...I can't see a crank handle spot in this photo. Someone may have been telling you porkie pies!

[pugrambo]

Hmmm...I can't see a crank handle spot in this photo. Someone may have been telling you porkie pies!

just above the E on the number plate i'm pretty that there is a crank handle hole there

[Wazza]

Hmmm...I can't see a crank handle spot in this photo. Someone may have been telling you porkie pies!

Ok I was wrong, Peugeot began numbering their cars with single digits, then moved to double digits, then the famous central zero, folowing public perceptions.
Cars always had a crank handle spot until about the sixties I suppose. In earlier times electric start cars were unheard of and the crank handle was the only way to start them (unless you could run it down a hill).

[pugrambo]

the 404 was the last of the peugeots to have a crank handle hole

it has a hole in the bumper behind the numberplate

the crank handle actually made things very easy when you were setting the timing or adjusting valves as you only had to stick the handle in

no need to try and get a socket down onto the pulley

as for timing for anyone who has even noticed in a 403 there is a hole in the bell housing for which you drop a timing rod (or dipstick) into the hole and that was TDC

there were pugs called bebe, vis a vis and so on then there were the numbers like type 175 and so on then the 3 digit number system came into play with the centre digit bieng the 0

[WLB]

The 404 hole was above the number plate, at least on the mid to late 60s models and they also had the timing hole. The 1800 504 might have had the hole too. Can't remember.

[WLB]

I was told that Peugeot started numbering thier cars with two digits and that for some models the hole for the crank handle was right in the middle of the two digits. The public began to use the hole as a central digit calling the 21 model the 201 (or whatever model it was) and thus Peugeot followed suit and added the central 0 to all subsequent models.

Wazza,
Here are a couple of photos of early radiators. The 201 photo shows more clearly what 'rambo was saying about the "0" and the crankhandle being unrelated, however, the 402 photo probably shows the origin of the story you'd heard.

Warwick.