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  1. #1
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    Default 306 just stopped

    daughter driving around a roundabout and our much cared for 2001 Rallye 306 with 130,000kms simply stopped

    will turn over but not fire

    appreciate not much to go on but any ideas?

    google tells me crank sensor or relay near the ECU - are these common?

    appreciate any ideas

    ALW

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  2. #2
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    Have you considered a snapped timing belt? Unless it has been changed in the last 4 years, then I would think it's the first thing you need to eliminate...

    Cheers

    Alec

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    Out of Petrol? Sorry.... will follow thread... sounds like an electrical glitch. Dead fuel pump? Any spark if you pull a plug out?

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    timing belt due in 6 months, no nasty sounds and it turns over when trying to start - hopefully not that

    plenty of fuel

    everything running as it should and unexpectedly stops

    unfortunately I'm 100kms away from them so we'll let RACQ do the first pass assessment

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    RACQ diagnosed no fuel pressure (or very little) - made it start with a squirt into the line, so it seems fuel pump is cactus

    is this an easy fix?

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    Easy to change. It lives under the rear seat base

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    Happened to our 1995 605 recently - just failed out of the blue! I should have suggested it, but thought it was rare!

    Cheers

    Alec

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    apparently there is fuel coming out but just a dribble, so diagnosed as a dead/dying pump

    on the 2l petrol engines, is there anything else in the fuel supply system that it could be?
    just in case we need to cover other bases

    e.g. fuel pump relay??
    Last edited by alittlewino; 12th February 2017 at 07:56 AM.

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    Check volts at the pump when its on and under load to identify relay. The relay itself will turn the pump on when hey is first turned so listen for pump if you can hear it, it will go for 2-3 seconds to prime the fuel system.

    Relays can carbon up due to current going through them and contacts whilst moving are higher resistance leading to load issues, if relay has failed easier diagnosis.
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  10. #10
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    Check fuel pump relay too. I had one die on my old 306. Stopped the car just like you said and engine turned over etc. but no running.
    I did change the fuel pump at the same time though.

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    I'm away from the car so can't remove to tell, but have been researching the fuel pump relay, and figure might as well do it too

    Is it a dual fuel/ignition relay and is this the right part # for a 306 Rallye 2001 2.0 16V petrol 100kW?
    454935, 19203N, 240107, 9664883180, 9627109680

    Any tricks to replacing so I don't fry the electrics or is it just everything off and unplug, re-plug?


    Cheers & thanks,

    ALW

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    No tricks apart from a slider on its base and a pin to lock it, just look but it might be mounted on back of battery box so hard to see?12V and nothing to hurt you. apart from skinning knuckles. Everything off, key out and replace.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway

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    Another thing to check is the inertia switch - big red button (though sometimes black) under the bonnet - designed to cut fuel pump in an accident.

    it can sometimes be triggered by a nasty pothole or gutter jumping out in front of you.

    306 just stopped-img_0006.jpg

    Obviously you push it in to reset it.
    Regards,

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    Fuel filter ???????//
    68 404 likes this.

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    EAI were kind enough to confirm, in line with an eBay seller, The part number is 454935
    =>>> Fuel Pump Relay For Peugeot 106 206 207 306 307 308 406 605 806 Partner 454935 | eBay

    thank you for all of the feedback & tips - much appreciated

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    well, the plot thickens - pump is ok even though I replaced it, but it won't come on nor prime when the ignition is turned on

    bypassed the fuel relay and the inertia cut-off switch and no change

    ECU or immoboliser issue?

    and another thing, when we hotwire the pump and it primes the car starts and idles but then stalls due to lack of feed - I'm guessing the fuel filter needs replacing

    didn't think this would become such an issue

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    I've just looked through all the fuel and injection circuits for 306s. This is something mine never did with almost 300k on the clock.

    The problem cannot be that hard to nail down. I am not sure what you did when you 'hotwired' the fuel pump as above, but can I suggest the following course of action...

    1. Run a hot wire direct from the battery to the fuel pump. You will need to remove the plug at the pump. Check the wire numbers M121 is the earth and you will need to run an earth locally to that pin. 121 is the +12V supply direct from battery.
    When you connect the pump supply and earth, does the pump run? If it does will the car start and run properly? If so, the problem is electrical. If not, it may be electrical + mechanical.

    2. Restore the plug on the fuel pump. Find the injection relay - it plugs into a brown base - and pull it out of the plug base. Turn the ignition on and you should have +12V at pin 14 and 2. If you have that, turn the ignition off, put the relay back in and turn the ignition back on while you have your hand on the relay. Does it click? If it does, you should now have +12V at fuse 35 and 36. If you don't, the problem is the injection relay. If you do, you will have 12V at the grey plug at fuse 35 which supplies your fuel pump.

    That should have the pump run for the prime period of a few seconds. While that is happening, ignition is also available. When the time expires, the ECU lifts the earth off the injection relay and it will open - you loose supply to pump and injection. When you start cranking the pump should restart. If it doesn't then...

    3. turn the ignition off and try again - if the pump runs properly for the prime but won't re-start when cranking, then the issue is the ECU or possibly the crank sensor (must function properly to tell the ECU the engine is turning and keep injection and fuel active).

    Replacing the crank sensor is easy enough. If that doesn't work, and the pump will start with ignition, then you're looking at an ECY. Figure out exactly which engine and ECU you have and someone may have one for you to try. The ECU (in mine anyway) is in the box attached to the back of the battery box.

    Good luck.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racing405 View Post

    1. Run a hot wire direct from the battery to the fuel pump. You will need to remove the plug at the pump. Check the wire numbers M121 is the earth and you will need to run an earth locally to that pin. 121 is the +12V supply direct from battery.
    When you connect the pump supply and earth, does the pump run? If it does will the car start and run properly? If so, the problem is electrical.
    Did this and the pump primes - car starts then idles for a few seconds and then stalls as insufficient fuel - checked on the inlet hose to the injectors and also outlet side of fuel filter - couldn't get off inlet side of fuel filter as ran out of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racing405 View Post

    2. Restore the plug on the fuel pump. Find the injection relay - it plugs into a brown base - and pull it out of the plug base. Turn the ignition on and you should have +12V at pin 14 and 2. If you have that, turn the ignition off, put the relay back in and turn the ignition back on while you have your hand on the relay. Does it click? If it does, you should now have +12V at fuse 35 and 36. If you don't, the problem is the injection relay. If you do, you will have 12V at the grey plug at fuse 35 which supplies your fuel pump.

    That should have the pump run for the prime period of a few seconds. While that is happening, ignition is also available. When the time expires, the ECU lifts the earth off the injection relay and it will open - you loose supply to pump and injection. When you start cranking the pump should restart. If it doesn't then...



    Replacing the crank sensor is easy enough.
    by injection relay do you mean the duel fuel pump/ABS relay behind the battery?

    have checked the relay and it clicks - had the cap off and can visually see it, bu the ABS side doesn't click when energised?

    I believe the RACQ checked power feed and fuses while they were out so the pump should be getting feed.

    Also clicked the fuel immobiliser and also bypassed - no effect, no fuel pump action

    I will replace fuel filter and relay.

    Could a faulty crank sensor stop the fuel pump from starting?
    Last edited by alittlewino; 5th March 2017 at 11:33 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alittlewino View Post
    have checked the relay and it clicks - had the cap off and can visually see it, bu the ABS side doesn't click when energised?

    I believe the RACQ checked power feed and fuses while they were out so the pump should be getting feed.

    Also clicked the fuel immobiliser and also bypassed - no effect, no fuel pump action

    I will replace fuel filter and relay.

    Could a faulty crank sensor stop the fuel pump from starting?
    The relay will click and may still not be working as intended.

    You need to check voltage at the contacts also (not just the coil). Make sure everything is connected up and check the voltage at both side of the contacts that supply power to the fuel pump.

    You should have 12v on both sides, if you have 12v on the supply side and anything less than the same on the pump side you have dirty contacts and a clean may fix your problem.
    Regards Col

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  21. #21
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    That coil should be fuel pump and ignition coils, not ABS... When it fails (imagine burned contacts even though coil works) it may just keep the coils hot for a little while and then fail. Turn the ignition on and look for volts at the fuse on the ignition circuit. No volts with the ignition on means no spark. Hot wire that circuit and see if you have a car that runs.

    If you have a replacement, change it out. If the car only runs for a short time with the fuel pump hot wired, I am leaning toward either that relay or the crank sensor. Crank sensors usually fail completely though, so I'm not sure why it would start at all if it is faulty.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racing405 View Post
    That coil should be fuel pump and ignition coils, not ABS...
    all of my research as poor as it is says Fuel Pump and ABS - got it from a parts supplier in Oz and also from an eBay supplier in Europe, according to the VIN - can anybody confirm for a 2001 Rallye (part # 454935)?

    also, had the cover off the dual relay and when energised only one of the relays clicks (and I hear the ABS module near the front of the car clicking when it does, coincidence?), the other doesn't move.

    Yet bridging pins 5&8 on the loom plug which is meant to bypass the relay doesn't get the pump going, only direct hotwire

    I'll replace the relay and fuel filter and see what happens - then I think it's likely a wire somewhere or the ECU
    as the car runs when fuel is direct injected it shouldn't be the crank sensor I don't think?
    Last edited by alittlewino; 7th March 2017 at 07:39 AM.

  23. #23
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    Ecu not controlling fuel pump other than by that relay so its the chief suspect. As comnented inductive loads like the pump will foul its contacts. Pity i am not at home, I would lend you a spare.

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    I've also read the odd problem (and likely hard to track) with connectors/wiring and apparently there's a connector under the glove box somewhere

    I guess I will need a wiring diagram

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Pity i am not at home, I would lend you a spare.
    thanks muchly for that - if you saw the state of the casing on the relay (which I didn't know about).....
    I have a new one on its way

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