205 GTI Series 1 values?
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Thread: 205 GTI Series 1 values?

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Default 205 GTI Series 1 values?

    What do we think about values of the S1 vs the later versions? My theory is that 2,2.5 - 3 series with the wheels, leather, power steering are/will be those that people go for both now and later.
    Having said that, I have my eye on a white 1987 S1 with about 160K klms, in quite good, fully original condition - pepperpots etc. Front seats need some love, one rust spot on edge of rear window, engine reco 30K klms ago and generally serviced well. Price ideas?

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    Put another way, this S1 is very original, but is that almost irrelevant because it isn't the later variant?

    ta
    Last edited by Isis; 21st November 2016 at 01:27 PM.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Pretty much

    There a very Australia/Japan specific model that noone else really sold.
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    So Cam it isn't a very good investment?
    Perhaps just a good hobby resto car that you would probably get your money back on if careful?
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Certainly not a bad investment. Its definitly for the love of the 205 as opposed to outright profit gain. The s3 will always be more desirable and pull more money. I would say 50% less as a wild guess.

    But hey. If its anything like the bargains you seem to find then Im sure it will all work out. If anything a good indicator if you end up flipping it.
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Pretty much

    There a very Australia/Japan specific model that noone else really sold.
    What is specific in this model?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    the S1, for all its deficiencies - pretend Gti engine, short gearing and heavy steering -
    is still a sporty 205, and worthy of loving ownership. and of course you should pay less
    for it, and sell it for less than a kosher Gti. but pretty impossible to put a price on, I reckon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    What is specific in this model?
    it's pretty much a European 1.6 Gti (early model), with the 14" wheels, rear drum brakes,
    no PAS, and the DFZ 75kw engine with short gearing to make it seem faster than it is.
    in short a fudged Gti to meet the demand in Oz in 1987, and outrageously priced,
    ie something like $32,000.

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Exactly as above.

    Its essentially the same power from the 1.6 engine. Just delivered differently.

    Ash. Ive usually modified the early cars. Maybe its time for a little project?
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    I drove the car. A great fun little car on the right road but sloppy and ancient in a number of areas. Yes Cam, good for modding but not sure I have the motivation. needed a respray. Engine really willing!

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lozenge View Post
    it's pretty much a European 1.6 Gti (early model), with the 14" wheels, rear drum brakes,
    no PAS, and the DFZ 75kw engine with short gearing to make it seem faster than it is.
    in short a fudged Gti to meet the demand in Oz in 1987, and outrageously priced,
    ie something like $32,000.

    Didn't see the reference to the 1.6 engine hence my question.

    I understand these engines were much more consistently hitting the power numbers than the 1.9 we have.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Was the dash in 1 piece? That alone would make it worth more than most Gti's

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    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Dash was quite good, glove box gone as usual. I would describe it as a 'survivor' generally.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Didn't see the reference to the 1.6 engine hence my question.

    I understand these engines were much more consistently hitting the power numbers than the 1.9 we have.
    just to clarify, the 1.9 DFZ in the original Gti for our market, known on
    this forum as the S1, produced 75k; the proper DKZ (with cat)) 88kw.
    the 1.6 Gti, never sold here, had 83kw.
    (these figures are from the 205 owner's handbook, wiki figures slightly higher.)
    some of us 205 tragics hanker after the 205 Rallye which used a TU-series engine,
    1294cc and about 75kw, twin Webers, a stripped down boy racer straight from the factory.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yeah, I know, just didn't understand how did others know it was the 1.6 since the OP didn't mention anything about engine capacity.

    My comment about power refers to reports that on the dyno, the 1.6 engines hit the mark with consistency whereas the 1.9 engines were all over the place for some reason.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post

    My comment about power refers to reports that on the dyno, the 1.6 engines hit the mark with consistency whereas the 1.9 engines were all over the place for some reason.
    ah, interesting. I wonder why.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Who knows?

    Looking at all the screwing around with all sorts of bearings and other engine componentry, I would hazard a guess it was typical French assembly line process. Just shove in there whatever you can find lying about the 'shop.
    lozenge likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lozenge View Post
    just to clarify, the 1.9 DFZ in the original Gti for our market, known on
    this forum as the S1, produced 75k; the proper DKZ (with cat)) 88kw.
    the 1.6 Gti, never sold here, had 83kw.
    (these figures are from the 205 owner's handbook, wiki figures slightly higher.)
    some of us 205 tragics hanker after the 205 Rallye which used a TU-series engine,
    1294cc and about 75kw, twin Webers, a stripped down boy racer straight from the factory.

    OK here is a partial listing of the XU and TU24 (Rally) engines and diff ratios for reference.

    Name:  205_engines.png
Views: 131
Size:  19.9 KB


    Unfortunately due to clearance problems with the Webers/Airbox and the steering column, they never made a RHD version of the Rallye although the German and maybe some other markets got a version with the DFZ engine installed. Yeah, I'd love a REAL one :-)
    lozenge likes this.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Gawd, we are such bunch of anoraks ;>
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Dash was quite good, glove box gone as usual. I would describe it as a 'survivor' generally.
    Sounds like both of my two. Due to their condition and value in that condition my feeling is that normally they would become parts cars, or 16V conversion cars, track/rally cars etc.
    There are quite a few S1 GTIs at different stages of being fixed on here, is anyone doing a concourse or traditional restoration?
    It would be interesting to see a mint S1 205GTI up for sale to gauge a value.

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    Isis: Gawd, we are such bunch of anoraks ;>

    yeah, when we feel like it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by CEyssens View Post
    Sounds like both of my two. Due to their condition and value in that condition my feeling is that normally they would become parts cars, or 16V conversion cars, track/rally cars etc.
    There are quite a few S1 GTIs at different stages of being fixed on here, is anyone doing a concourse or traditional restoration?
    It would be interesting to see a mint S1 205GTI up for sale to gauge a value.
    Although probably not that relevant, these two UK 1.6 nice GTi's provide a little food for thought.
    There are a few wrong parts (seats, steering wheel, tailgate) but overall not bad.

    Used 1987 Peugeot 205 GTI for sale in Yorkshire | Pistonheads

    Used 1986 Peugeot 205 GTI for sale in Lincolnshire | Pistonheads

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ng850 View Post
    OK here is a partial listing of the XU and TU24 (Rally) engines and diff ratios for reference.

    Name:  205_engines.png
Views: 131
Size:  19.9 KB


    Unfortunately due to clearance problems with the Webers/Airbox and the steering column, they never made a RHD version of the Rallye although the German and maybe some other markets got a version with the DFZ engine installed. Yeah, I'd love a REAL one :-)
    Yeah, I get it, induction noise, all that jazz, but look at those figures. You'd have to rev it to Mahatma Gandhi heaven to get it moving.

    I drove a 106 Rally version in Belgium. 1300 cc and smaller than a 205, a lot of fun but I still prefer the low gearing and lazy low rev torque of the DFZ.

    Ask Dave Cavanagh what it was like to drive a 12G in traffic.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ng850 View Post
    Although probably not that relevant, these two UK 1.6 nice GTi's provide a little food for thought.
    There are a few wrong parts (seats, steering wheel, tailgate) but overall not bad.

    Used 1987 Peugeot 205 GTI for sale in Yorkshire | Pistonheads

    Used 1986 Peugeot 205 GTI for sale in Lincolnshire | Pistonheads

    Looks like they don't know what the cars are worth either. Hopefully won't come here to find out.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  24. #24
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    I'll say this: when BIGR drove my 205 he was surprised it was a S1. His 205 is a 16V one as well.
    Then again I drove his 16V and it was good fun, apart from that handbrake which needed 5 arms to do and undo.


    maybe i was hearing things i wanted to hear though
    CEyssens likes this.
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  25. #25
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    Interesting both cars have been painted, the white one is a lot of cash for a car that's rusty and has cracks in the respray. The red car also looks very shinny but possibly quite a lot of fill around the b pillar top and bottom seams.

    I get why a S3 is worth more being newer, DKZ, rear discs, PAS etc. So between S1 & S2 here in Aus it's really just the dash being the main difference isn't it?

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