I've bought a 205!
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  1. #1
    Tadpole wridej's Avatar
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    Default I've bought a 205!

    Hi everyone,

    As of a few months ago I've joined the Peugeot gang and bought myself a black 1987 205 1.9GTI.
    More than anything I'm just hoping my 205's previous owners (or anyone for that matter) are on here and could maybe shed some light on what's been done to it or just give me more info on it in general.

    As far as I can tell it's had the A/C deleted and power steering added, short air intake mod, lowered and a coolant fed oil cooler.
    All I've done to it so far is a full service, replace the gear linkages, put in a short shifter, and changed the big end bearings as one spun not long into my ownership. I believe it needs a full engine rebuild, however I'm just waiting for the time and a few extra parts to do it.

    I have no history on it at all and not a whole lot of knowledge about these cars so I'm eager to learn as much as everyone can throw at me.

    I've bought a 205!-14881609_338636689831705_174394131_o.jpgI've bought a 205!-14923916_338636703165037_1547681807_o.jpg

    If you have any questions please ask.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Nice looking car Wridej.
    I think it might be a later car than an 87. Dash looks to be series 1/2 at least. Wheels are series 3. Looks to be lowered.
    Not sure about the green carpet, thought all GTis had red carpet.
    Series 3 anybody?
    Paul.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Ouch.

    I mean, welcome.

    Hope you have deep pockets, 'cos this is gonna hurt.

    Any damage to bearing journal when you spun the bearing? How's the oil pressure?

    Can you measure the clearance at the top of the front/rear wheel to the wheel arch and let us know what it is (also what size tyres), pease?

    Do you have the original bill of sale? Do you think your car might be a private import, I always thought a bad idea to sell black cars here.

    Also, the dash is not a 1987 model (series 1), but a later (S2? S3?) one with the round controls.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Its definitely later than 87. Probably 91/2/3. They didnt come in that coulor in the earlier series. You have a series 1 wiper stalk too.

    Get it raised up and it will ride and handle so much better.

    Engine parts are fairly easy to come by for the engine rebuild. Speak with Peter T for the right way to go about ti.
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Well that's a BE1 gearshift, so it's either s1 or early s2. I guess a look at the manufacturing plate and compliance plate will reveal all.

    s1 interiors were made from a particularly brittle form of French unobtanium, so many cars have had interiors from later cars fitted - which are still brittle but not quite as bad as the earlier cars. I'm guessing that's what's happened to your car - I'm guessing its s1 with interior from a grey or Sorrento green s3 transplanted in (both of which came with green carpets and door cards). The seats are from something else again.

    Series 1 is used on this forum to refer to a pre-88 car with the first generation interior. In the UK they are referred to as 'phase 1' cars. In 1988 the interior was updated to a grey version of what you've got fitted to your car. On this forum we tend to refer to those cars as s2. The UK refers to them as 'phase 1.5'. At the very end of 1990 (I think) the interior and exterior plastics were changed from mid/dark grey to a very dark grey that is almost black. At the same time, Aussie cars got the European 1.9 Motronic engine for the first time with cat converter that gave 122hp, plus power steer, 15" wheels and rear disc brakes. Previous Aussie cars have a low compression Jetronic engine to cope with the low octane ULP that was all you could get in Aus at the time. That engine gives 90hp. The last cars are referred to as s3 on this forum, and as 'phase 2' anywhere else.

    Some of the interior parts you are missing, like the coin tray for the top of the dash, can be found in a less brittle state on eBay UK where the cars are still RHD but have seen less sun and heat than Aussie cars.

    I agree also that black is not a standard Aussie colour. Has it perhaps had a colour change? If it's been done well that's probably a good thing as the original paint either fades or delaminates on nearly all 205s and can only be fixed with a respray that typically costs as much as the car is worth.

    A proper engine rebuild will not be cheap. Given that the car's not original, the suspension is already modified and the original engine is shot, this car is probably the perfect candidate for a 16V transplant. That said, some people make a 16V transplant sound simple when in fact there is a large amount of work involved to do it well.

    Talking to Peter T for tips on how to build a hot 8V is undoubtedly the practical way to go. Alternatively, if money is tight, perhaps you might get lucky and find a reasonable running s1 or s2 engine from someone who is doing a 16V transplant and just bolt that in. Whichever way you go, it should be a fun car!
    Last edited by Richard W; 1st November 2016 at 09:34 AM.

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    For a complete engine rebuild kit..........PUG1OFF in the UK....495 GBP.
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Perhaps with some of the mods discussed here 205GTI 122 vs 130 differences

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    Tadpole wridej's Avatar
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    So it's safe to say it's far from stock then. Previous owner said he hadn't done anything to it in the time he owned it, so before him its history is unknown to us. I've gone and taken more detailed pictures for you all which should answer some questions.

    I think it might be a later car than an 87.
    Do you have the original bill of sale? Do you think your car might be a private import
    I have no original paperwork with it at all as previous owner didn't have any. Data plates state it's Australian and built June 87. Does the spec match up to any European offerings?

    I agree also that black is not a standard Aussie colour. Has it perhaps had a colour change?
    The only sign of a respray is a small spot on the drivers door where some paint has come off and some red is coming through so I guess that answers that question.

    Any damage to bearing journal when you spun the bearing? How's the oil pressure?
    We measured the journals before we put the new bearings in and they were all within spec for standard sizes. Oil pressure sits around 4.5bar at 4000rpm, as the manual states it should, however when hot it drops to about 2bar when idling. Is this normal?

    s1 interiors were made from a particularly brittle form of French unobtanium, so many cars have had interiors from later cars fitted - which are still brittle but not quite as bad as the earlier cars. I'm guessing that's what's happened to your car - I'm guessing its s1 with interior from a grey or Sorrento green s3 transplanted in (both of which came with green carpets and door cards). The seats are from something else again.
    If it has had its interior transplanted from another car it has been done very well and the condition is excellent apart from a few cracks and missing pieces out of the dash. The seats are half leather and green to match and I have the original front seats too they just require reupholstering, but I like these bucket seats which have been fitted at some stage. Very comfortable.

    A proper engine rebuild will not be cheap.
    For a complete engine rebuild kit..........PUG1OFF in the UK....495 GBP.
    Already have the kit they offer sitting in my garage. We used the big end bearings from it already however the motor still has a noticeable knock under load. So I suspect it may be the main bearings or possibly piston slap? I'm just waiting for the time to be able to take the engine out and have a proper good look at it all. But for now it runs well enough to cruise around to a few events I want to show it off at.


    I've bought a 205!-14875058_339070236455017_635762032_n.jpgI've bought a 205!-14876355_339070229788351_1926579189_o.jpgI've bought a 205!-14885800_339070336455007_88914837_n.jpgI've bought a 205!-14895612_339070286455012_601778453_o.jpgI've bought a 205!-14895632_339070306455010_1700176235_o.jpgI've bought a 205!-14923906_339070233121684_50210013_o.jpgI've bought a 205!-14954503_339070253121682_799889886_o.jpg

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    It's absolutely had an interior swap. If you like the seats that have been fitted I'd keep them because 205 front seats are difficult and costly to recover and you can't get the correct green 'quartet' fabric any more anyway.

    Tail lights and blinkers and wheels have been swapped from s1 to s3 items as well - presumably when it was resprayed. Must have been a thorough job - engine out, doors off etc - if there is only one place you can find the original colour. It appears to have original engine bay stickers replaced as well (if we are right about a respray), but the colour code stencil appears to be covered up or missing from where it should appear behind the passenger headlight, which would fit with a respray and colour change.

    Remote oil filter mount and oil/water heat exchanger are both original fitment.

  10. #10
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    Just did a check of your VIN #......according to that you have a 1988 [being French 10/87 is close enough LOL ] series one and the engine is a D6B.....thus to me it points to definately being a UK import with the 130 hp motor. I have the exact same car specs in my car however it is a phase 1.5.
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    If it is a UK import why would it have normal Aus compliance plate? Also, it looked like drum rear brakes which would not be right for UK 1.9.

  12. #12
    Tadpole wridej's Avatar
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    I also have a DKZ (90kw?) motor, which to my understanding wasn't fitted on my model as this was a later model engine right?

    I've bought a 205!-14937924_339166386445402_1417036455_n.jpg

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    DFZ was fitted to early cars and DKZ to later cars
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    If it is a UK import why would it have normal Aus compliance plate? Also, it looked like drum rear brakes which would not be right for UK 1.9.
    Its only a guess.......when imported 205's come in via Sydney [which most did ] many years ago all that was given by the Canberra Govt import people was an A4 bit of paper saying it is legal to be in OZ for registration purposes etc. Over the years this bit of paper was lost from most glove boxes in which it was to be kept for the life of the vehicle.
    This vehicle could have been brought in via WA where upon the authorities wack a proper plate on the car....similar what they do here in QLD [green plate ]
    The rear brake issue is yet to be confirmed....do we know for sure if they are drums?
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    Quote Originally Posted by wridej View Post
    I also have a DKZ (90kw?) motor, which to my understanding wasn't fitted on my model as this was a later model engine right?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thats weird!! As your VIN is definately saying you have a D6B....or should have. !! Can you confirm if your VIN # is the same on the silver plaques as it is on the steel body part just above the brake booster?
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  16. #16
    Tadpole wridej's Avatar
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    Rear brakes are definitely drums and the fronts are disc. Fronts have either been modified or upgraded because they are drilled and I wouldn't imagine they would have done this from factory.

    I'm not sure what you mean by another VIN # being above the brake booster? I had a look but can't find anything.

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    Top of the firewall where it is horizontal right next to the plastic wiper tray cover. The VIN is sort of punched into the metal on the horizontal surface.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts CEyssens's Avatar
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    Default I've bought a 205!

    Welcome and congrats you've got a cool looking GTI, nice colour!!

    VIN is definitely Aus delivered S1 GTI with 1.9 DFZ 100hp engine.

    The confusion may come from the lack of individual VIN records for S1/ph1 cars so it's searched on a EU list it comes up as a 1.9 D6B GTI which was the base platform for the exported S1 GTIs.

    Another S1 on the pond, awesome!

    About your mods, you also look to have a S2/3 tailgate (missing spoiler, any visible mount points?) and doors to fit those S3 door trims matching the S3 dash, any pics of the back seat and old front seats?
    The DKZ well that's like others have said a replacement.

    You may find some original body colour under the rear seat or carpets or behind the interior light.

    Regardless it's a 205GTI so very cool! Have fun!!

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    It definitely looks like an Aus delivered car to me, that still has DFZ dizzy and management but with a DKZ block and maybe head. The last digits of the VIN number is the engine number and will be stamped on the block, on the sump parting face, towards the flywheel end. Oil cooler mount is broken and somebody has done a bodge fix.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEyssens View Post
    About your mods, you also look to have a S2/3 tailgate (missing spoiler, any visible mount points?) and doors to fit those S3 door trims matching the S3 dash
    Are s2/3 doors different to S1? I had always assumed the full height door cards of the S2/3 just fitted over the same door shape and could therefore be fitted to S1 with no modification, but I've never tested that assumption.

    If the doors have been swapped that would obviously provide an alternative explanation of the different original paint colour under the doors.

    But as Craig says, whatever the explanation it should be a fun car.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Late model doors! Well spotted. Could also be Si doors.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts CEyssens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    Are s2/3 doors different to S1? I had always assumed the full height door cards of the S2/3 just fitted over the same door shape and could therefore be fitted to S1 with no modification, but I've never tested that assumption.
    Ah untested irresponsible point from me, I was told on here not to bother with that on my S1s as they were apparently different, and I haven't checked it.
    Maybe someone here has tried and can shed some door light?!



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    Wridej's vin........... 741 = phase 1 c86= coupe d6b [12/86-06/87 ] e=1984 f=1985 g=1986 h=1987 0= 1988

    phase 1.5 and 2. Vin 20cdk2 = dkz [ 7/87- 4/94 ]

    it appears this car may be a "between model change " as its a 10/87 build.
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts CEyssens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Late model doors! Well spotted. Could also be Si doors.
    Ah thanks Peter.
    Si tailgate? Is there a difference between the Si and GTI tailgate with mounting for spoiler?


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  25. #25
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    Do those seats give access to the rear? Wonder what they are out of. Not 100% sure but I think you need an engineers cert to fit different seats because you need to modify the rails on most I think.

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