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Thread: Turbo 504/5?

  1. #1
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    Turbo 504/5?

    Has anyone done a turbo conversion to an XN series motor?

    What would be involved to add a turbo?
    How much $ would I be looking at?
    Who has done it and what is the power rating?

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    Any info on this topic would be very handy?

    Cheers
    JoFuS

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    may need daves memory on this one
    i think there was a bloke called peter boorman (ex president of the nsw club) did this conversion and if i am not mistaken still has the setup or even may still have the car that he fitted it in
    i remember all the talk about it but have never seen the setup
    there was also another setup involving a blower for earlier pugs (203/403) and there is a setup floating around nsw as well.
    last time i heard i think tim cosier had it (don't quote me on that one though) as i say my memory does fail me at times
    the turbo setup would be a fairly easy conversion.
    i have though about it at times but just don't like the idea of "bolt on horsepower"
    not a lot of thought really goes into it when you consider there are many things that can be done internally to an engine to produce more power or simply bolt in a bigger engine
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  3. #3
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    well in my opinion you would only be like a rice boy or a wrx driver adding a turbo as graham said a turbo is bolt on horsepower why the hell not do a bit of head work etc.
    my naturally aspirated 1.4 litre ax will do vt commydore off the lights so why bother witha turbo

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    Iam sorry, but it's not about beating conformadores off the lights(bit boring), I just like to go fast, thats all
    JoFuS

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Pug403
    ...my naturally aspirated 1.4 litre ax will do vt commydore off the lights so why bother witha turbo[/QB]
    Pug403
    I would hazard a guess that many number of cars would beat you off the lights, and many probably have already tried and failed . But I dont think thats the point of bolting the turbo on. Some people may not want to mess about with head work, remapping ECU and changing the intake design to get extra 2 hp per mod. It all does add up but some people want their fav car to go just a bit better without the worry of redesign work with guaranteed performance "boost" (pun intended ). As long as the chassis , suspension and above all brakes can handle the mod, why not?

    And on the side note it would surprise some as well.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    and speaking of cars that look the part. All it needs is 200kw to match the styling. head_ban

    <img src="http://www.garage24.net/505ww/5059.jpg" alt=" - " />
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  7. #7
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    Many turbo conversions were done by Graham Ritter in Melbourne about 20 years ago. They didn't last long, head gaskets and incurable pinging were two of the problems. I don't know of any that are still going.
    A couple of private conversions went OK, Richard Marken in Queensland seems to have had a successful experience and Ivan Washington's went OK for the time that he had it.
    If you are to carry out this conversion I would recommend some serious thought about improving the head gasket situation. Actually an 1800 (XM) engine might be a good basis as this doesn't have the open top block of the XN engine.

    Regards, Graham Wallis

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Hi,

    AFAIK that is the reason why the factory 505 Turbo engine was actually based on the Simca unit in the (shock horror) eek! Chrysler 180, which apparently had a much stronger block and was not prone to the same problems.

    The site below has some info on Simca engines.

    <a href="http://www.allpar.com/model/simca.html" target="_blank">SImca 180 site</a>

    Paul
    Paul Smith

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    http://www.simplicitas.com.au

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    To PUG 403 .The day your AX blow's off a VX Holden will be the day that VX run's out of fuel. mallet

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    To PUG 403 .The day your AX blow's off a VX Holden will be the day that VT run's out of fuel. mallet

  11. #11
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    Wow finally i can post into this forum
    I keep getting asked to log in (When i am logged in)
    Anyway
    82505,

    First of all i would desregard that turbo is a bolt on modification in general
    It can be though especially the setup i have finished (And the bonus of the gutless but perfect mid and low compression engines peugeot have graced us with).
    Think about the 205 for 1 minute gutless series one engine 8-4-1 comp 74kw (Ideal candidate for low boost without even openening up your engine.
    thats if u have a standard healthy engine that is

    When it comes to making real power nothing will be superior to a turbo (I am talking performance & reliability) :p
    Really to get real performance out of a normally asperated engine
    You need headwork
    You need big cams
    you need big exhaust
    you need high revs (Revs kill engines)
    The above mods can cost u just as much as a proper turbo setup
    what you have in the end is a n/a engine making say 200hp runs like a wild pig eek!
    Just ask Andreas he acheived his goal of getting a 200hp n/a engine (but at what cost)
    How much did it cost is it legal (Immitions)computer changed from oem and whats the fuel economy like.

    Sorry Andreas i don't mean to put down your car it is just a perfect example of a high performance n/a peugeot Realy could not use any other peugeot car as an example from Australia as none have mods past the air filter and chip stage
    You have the hottest looking 405
    By the way i love your rear wing looks purposefull and most importantly in this instance it works wink
    Carrying on from before
    While in a turbo setup you have the standard engine the peugeot or whatever engineers have spent millions in devoloping make the 200hp with factory fuel economy and drivability
    Really don't come in say you don't like n/a cars like they do in england
    i do and i have owned a n/a car making over 475hp it was a pig and the worst car i have owned.
    I have helped in a few setups with the intent on using low boost and have seen 30-40hp without opening up the engine tongue
    You can't really win against a turbo but at least u can ban them (Like the v8 superbus cars that had no hope)
    I will most likely be starting a 405 0r more realistically a 505 gti turbo setup while enjoying my 205 turbo on the streets of melbourne and phillip island race track.
    It should be a sinch after the 205 nightmare that has taken nearly all my time lately.
    Not all turbo cars r for showoffs look at the beutifull volvo 5 cyl turbo's the bi turbo audi's.
    Not to mention all the trucks that could not be the same without their hairdryers.
    Oh yeah pug 403 in reality mate i think chuck is correct and wise in saying you r dreaming by saying your 1.4 can punish a v6 commondore off the line mallet come on mate none of us r big just holden together fans but be a little realistic

    Murat

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Murat:
    1...When it comes to making real power nothing will be superior to a turbo (I am talking performance & reliability) :p ...


    2...Really to get real performance out of a normally asperated engine
    You need headwork
    You need big cams
    you need big exhaust
    you need high revs (Revs kill engines)
    The above mods can cost u just as much as a proper turbo setup
    what you have in the end is a n/a engine making say 200hp runs like a wild pig eek!
    You can't really win against a turbo but at least u can ban them (Like the v8 superbus cars that had no hope)

    3...Not all turbo cars r for showoffs look at the beutifull volvo 5 cyl turbo's the bi turbo audi's.
    Not to mention all the trucks that could not be the same without their hairdryers.

    Murat
    1. Just to quote the prayer of every V8 fan "there is no replacement for displacement" . And as much as it sounds one sided you only have to look at drag racing scene where all top fuellers are V8's with massive 8L+ engines. But it would be silly to assume that TURBO cars have no place in drag racing, humm PACMAN RX2 at 9sec quarter is absolutely amazing. All I am saying is that V8 can be developed as much as any engine, but why? It has the power without mods.

    2... low revving V8 do not need major headwork to develop 200kw+. Holden Monaro comes with 225kw with a $5000 option from Suttons that adds another 35kw at flywheel eek!
    The car is VERY drivable and easy to drive. Traction control works overtime if pushed, but it will probably cruise along for another 300,000kms and can be driven by anyone not just enthusiasts. At the same time it can push the coupe to 100kms/hr in about 6 secs! And with another $6000 you can have a supercharger fitted for that 500nm of tourque and 15% more power!!!!!
    And before I get balmed for non frnech sympathies the owner of the above mentioned coupe longs for "his" (mine now tongue ) 306 PUG as the coupe doesnt quite have that driver involvement he loved. And I can hardly blame him... he is NOT getting the PUG back !

    3. Subary B4, Lotus , Compressor Mercs ( I know not turbo but same principle in the end), Vette 350 quad with twin turbos (hehe confused car V8 and a turbo ), 200SX 's' ( specially with APS mods that take it to 250kw ), are some of the other non poser bullets that 4cylinder non turbo cars can only hope to see and admire in slow moving traffic or parking lots. I know there is so many more but im tired and I am sure other froggers will have their own list.

    .. and yes VX V8 executive is one of the fastest 4 door cars on Australian markets. Watch out for them (6.35sec 0-100)

    <small>[ 18 June 2002, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: tekkie ]</small>
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  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i realise that a turbo setup can produce some nice power
    i also realise that more often than not you can't beat cubic capacity
    but to get 200hp and still be drivable and be economic i think peugeot come pretty close with their V6 in the 406
    from memory i think that produces around 145kw without a turbo albeit 3.0L
    even the old 2.7L can produce 200hp without a lot of trouble without a turbo
    the trouble we have is getting 100hp/Litre
    that i think is about the benchmark we all tend to aim at
    even with the engine in the GTi6 which produces just shy of 170hp i am sure that with a little bit of playing that engine could hit the magic 200hp
    pugs new 2.0L produces 133kw so that is getting pretty close
    turbos are a nice thing to have
    i remember putting one on a 2.0L toyota engine (1976 celica) running would you believe 504 pistons to lower the comp ratio but even that still didn't outrun my V6 504
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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    Default

    Bit left field here but....there's a single word I use when arguing the pros and cons of turbo vs non-turbo (205gti ownership vs wrx/180sx/200sx/import ownership) with my friends

    "insurance"



    Got nothing to do with performance, but a car that can't be reasonably (and $2000+ is nothing like reasonable) insured is pointless.

    Just how much does it cost for anyone under 55 to insure a WRX?
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 01:47 AM.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    Murat:
    Just ask Andreas he acheived his goal of getting a 200hp n/a engine (but at what cost)
    How much did it cost is it legal (Immitions)computer changed from oem and whats the fuel economy like.

    Sorry Andreas i don't mean to put down your car it is just a perfect example of a high performance n/a peugeot Realy could not use any other peugeot car as an example from Australia as none have mods past the air filter and chip stage
    You have the hottest looking 405
    By the way i love your rear wing looks purposefull and most importantly in this instance it works wink

    Murat
    Hi mate,
    put my car down as much as you like, i even do it now and then myself.
    getting 200bhp from the mi16 wasn't cheap, and it still isn't enough power for me.
    If i hadn't already spent so much on the engine i'd definitely consider the turbo route.
    As for my car looking good, tell me what you think in a few months.

    Andreas

    <small>[ 19 June 2002, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Andreas ]</small>

  16. #16
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    Pugrambo,

    How r u mate
    Just finished watching world cup (Amazing)
    Anyway mate the thing is, i am talking about the 4 cyl that we all have i don't have a v6 and neither does the gentleman asking about turbo's for his 505 (He is talking about the 4 cyl)
    I would not do anything to a 167hp engine as it is highly tuned from the factory everything works like it was supposed to.
    Honda has already produced 120hp per litre n/a
    What i am getting at is it is easy to get 100hp per litre with a turbo.
    To get that even from the great gti-6 engine would require giving away refinement&economy.
    If i owned a highly tuned normally asperated 4 putting out 167hp i could not convince myself to ruin it with wilder cams or making it illegal by putting on throttlebodys and such.
    What i would be willing to do however is drop in some low comp pistons put a low pressure turbo setup in there fully engineered fully legal.
    I think even 6-7 psi would would easily put you over the 215+ mark.
    Remember the bottom line is power to weight ratio thats why i purchased a peugeot over other cars.
    My car is around 850kg 1.9L series2 engine now with a pro turbo setup while say a 306 gti-6 is 167hp with about 1250kg.
    I think even without the fueling completed on my car with retarded timing colder spark plugs optimax fuel, series2 injectors without intercooling but with a very efficient water injection setup 2.5 inch stainless manderal bent exhaust right from the back of the turbo out.
    I will use as much boost as i can without detonating maybe about 6 psi untill i fabricate a big intercooler.
    I think i wont be very far from the 167hp engine in the 306 but with a big weight saving.
    If the v6 3L peugeot puts out 200hp, then with two turbo's it would put out over 300hp with most likely the same reliabilty and economy.
    Actually i had better fuel consumtion with my turbo chargered 265 hemi when the turbo setup was put on it (Of course i am talking about off boost conditions)
    In the inexperienced hands it can all go wrong pretty quickly with a turbo setup (Thats why turbo's had a bad name in the good old days)
    But now with intercoolers better fuel retard computers fmu's better quality pistons and such reliability is no issue as i have already stated.
    Consider this if i had a goal of making 250hp from a 4 cyl engine.
    I could do a nice turbo setup and have graet driveability (Look at some of the jap engines putting out 240-250hp oem setups)
    If i decided to go normally asperated i would kill the engine with the revs i have to pull to achieve that figure of 250hp.
    Turbo is a great advantage (I am not under any rules or regulations to run a n/a engine why would i bother.
    If your requirement is oem like driveability with a reasonable power increase it 's turbo everytime for me.
    But if age & insurance is a problem or you only require a little power a little fiddling around with a n/a engine will have to do.


    Murat

  17. #17
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    Actually an 1800 (XM) engine might be a good basis as this doesn't have the open top block of the XN engine.

    Regards, Graham Wallis
    I agree, although if you have copper "O" rings fitted to the top of the XN liners, just outside the fire ring, then gasket sealing should be fine under large turbo pressures.

    Pugrambo mentioned Peter Boorman's engine. I've got that sitting at my place. The engine is actually fitted to my 504 at the moment(minus turbo) and it has bags of low down torque but won't rev, so it must have some fancy low overlap turbo grind cam in it.

    Dave McBean

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    Call me sacraligous but have you thought of just putting an SR20DET into the 505 (said it in the other thread I know).
    It's a standard turbo motor, shouldn't have too many problems fitting it, though I haven't had a good look at it yet and it it is a good motor capable for some absolutely manic figures without too much work.
    Peugeot...
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  19. #19
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    The Pupat:
    Call me sacraligous but have you thought of just putting an SR20DET into the 505 (said it in the other thread I know).
    It's a standard turbo motor, shouldn't have too many problems fitting it, though I haven't had a good look at it yet and it it is a good motor capable for some absolutely manic figures without too much work.
    Yeah we know, we know. We've talked about an SR20 turbo conversion in a 504/505 at length in a thread about six months ago. Now we're talking about turboing the XN.

    In another thread we might talk about something else.

    Dave McBean

  20. #20
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    someone open a thread about jap engines in pugs
    JoFuS

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Why on earth would anyone want to put a horrible motor out of a rice burner into a nice car like a Pug !!!!!!!

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  22. #22
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    to go mega fast!
    JoFuS

  23. #23
    nJm
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    I've got mixed feelings. It would completely change the character of the car having a smooth, refined, powerful Japanese engine in it. wink :p

    I'm not a huge fan of the XN1 I suppose you can guess tongue If it had more power it would be cool though. I would be really happy with mine if it had more low rpm torque and a lot more high rpm power

    food for thought!
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    If you throw a few $$$ an an XN1 they go better !
    A Weber Carbie would be a good start ! and find a big bore exhaust manifold off an early 505 *1980 I think*

    These mods make them go quite well..........

    The Weber off the 2L Escort or Cortina fits....and makes a good performance enhancement....

    As for putting Jap motors in.....WHY WHY WHY ! Just tricking Pug motors up is more fun !

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  25. #25
    nJm
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    I agree with that!

    I've never been a huge fan of japanese 4cyl's. I think if I was going to swap an engine into a 505 I'd put in some form of V6.

    How much would a weber off a Cortina/Escort cost?
    So they just bolt on do they? Very tempting - the achillies heel of my Pug is its Solex carb - absolutely shocking auto choke! blush
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

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