306 S16 torque curve
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    306 S16 torque curve

    Has anyone seen a dyno sheet for a near stock S16? Gem's S16 feels like it produces less torque between 3000-4000rpm than it does between 2000-3000rpm! Once it gets over 4000rpm it pulls nicely, but I still didn't expect it to be so dead even up to 4000rpm. It Feels like it has timing/fuling issues...Any ideas?

    cheers!
    -Mike

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The gadget that controls manifold length has a habit of breaking on these engines ie Mi16 S2 and S16. They get stuck on the short manifold length, thus the poor low end torque.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    wow! i didn't even know they used such a thing. Sounds like something out of a 26b quad rotor dance

    but seriously, how can i check if this is working properly?

    thanks
    -Mike
    Mmmm - two stroke

  4. #4
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    My car had exactly that feel when I bought it and one of these was broken, along with a solenoid which connects the system together.

    There are two black dome looking things on the top of the engine. These are diaphrams and have black pipes coming into them at the top. Rev the engine with your hand at the throttle and the vacume from the engine should pull the metal shaft underneath them up, then release it when the revs drop back.

    If it is not doing this, then follow the tubing back to where there is a T piece connecting the two diaphrams back to the engine. Take them off the T piece and suck on them. If you can suck air, then it is broken or there is a spit in the diaphram and it will need replacing. Trust me...it's worth it. It increase my torque between 3,000 and 4,000 immensely.

    <img src="http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwjones/pictures/diaphrams.jpg" alt=" - " />

    <small>[ 03 June 2003, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Phasis ]</small>
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    As brad said above, but they do have a slight flat spot at those revs naturally, you can see it on a dyno curve.
    Ill be doing some more engine work soon, which will include several dyno sessions.
    Ill try to post them up.
    Cheers Xq

    ps, ive been bragging about these 'MODS' for a while and .."tis time to get to it"-makaveli
    ... ptui!

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Phasis - Thanks for the info I'll give it a go. How much are we talking for parts if one or both is broken do you know?

    Also did your car ever ping at lower revs? say around 2000-3000rpm? We've always run the S16 on optimax and even tried octane booster from time to time, but it seems to make no difference.

    xqisid - I look forward to seeing some results Get to it hehe :p

    Cheers all
    -Mike
    Mmmm - two stroke

  7. #7
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    ORX400 - from memory the diaphrams were $90 each and about $45 for the solenoid which controls them. If you follow this back its a little back thing with 2 black pipes connected and some wires.

    Also in this system, be careful with the black and white doobie which is connected via a braided hose to the vacume pump at the top right hand side of the head. It's called a vacume booster and has some one-way valves in it. On it there are 3 white plasic barbs which, if snap will cost you $50 and 2+ weeks from France to replace.
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  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    thanks for the info and advice mate. it's good to know someone who's been there before us

    I'll send gem the link to this post sometime tonight, see if she wants to have a look at it with me.

    cheers
    Mike
    Mmmm - two stroke

  9. #9
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    NP. You (or Gem) ow me a showing at the next drive day
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  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    haha! yes indeed we do!
    Mmmm - two stroke

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Brad can you help em' with the Pining/detonation.... my car has never done it. Ever.. even on the track.
    I use 95% off the time BP ultimate, with that new fuel-doctor addative. made no real diff to the power but the car feels a tiny bit more responsive to throttle hits, espesh otof corners at Wakefield park.
    cheers Xq
    ... ptui!

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    WHOOOOAH!
    it's been a while guys...

    A few nights ago i fired up the old girl and gave her a good revin'. The metal shafts connected to both diaphrams didn't move much at all. I did suck on the little black pipe, but stupid me sucked on the wrong end..DOH, so ill try that again tonight.

    Gemma is quite keen these things fixed by a good peugout specialist. Could anyone recomend a person or workshop that we could trust?

    I'll post tonight after sucking on those pipes

    thanks for all your responses cheers!
    -Mike
    Mmmm - two stroke

  13. #13
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Mike, if it is the diaphrams then these are easy to replace yourself. You just need to be carfull when prying off the bottom end of the metal shafts as they are connected by a ball and socket joint, but the socket is plastic and likely to snap. I used a flat head screwdriver right at the base of the socket and slowly pried it from the ball. Other than that, its only held on with 2 10mm bolts.
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  14. #14
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    And regarding pinging, I have never heard a ping come from it. Does this only happen under load or all the time?

    There is another thread going talking about pinging...raise the question there and you might get someone more mechanically minded than me cry
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  15. #15
    Tadpole
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    ill tell gem that we should give it a go spanner I don't really have much trust in car workshops anyway

    the pinging happens sometimes under anymore than slight(ie cruising) load. I will have a look at the dizzy tonight as well, see if there's anything strange there. Apart from that I was going to see how it goes after we fix the manifold length gaget.

    -Mike
    Mmmm - two stroke

  16. #16
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Sure, have a look at the dizzy if you want, but that wont do much good, there isn't one
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Phasis:
    Sure, have a look at the dizzy if you want, but that wont do much good, there isn't one
    Heh, heh! Took this old bush mechanic a couple of takes to work out what else was missing on the 406 when I first opened the bonnet too - no spark plug leads either!

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 13 June 2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  18. #18
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Yeah, each cylinder has it's own coil within a hollow in the head. Makes it expensive though, $190 each cry
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Are they often problematic? Must be pretty well impossible to test them without the correct , and expensive, gear too I would guess. (Says Rod, contemplating glummly the potential future demise of 8 of them - four in the 406 and four in the new 306 Xsi - and thinking of the four bits of copper wire and Ducellier coil that did the same job but lasted a lifetime in the old 403)

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 13 June 2003, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    guys correct me if im way off, but Pinging(detonation), can also occur when there is an over suply of fuel too? no?
    So if the inlet manifold varaible is stuck then perhaps the ecu might not be compensating well on the a/f mixture?? im not sure..
    as for coils... well in the 8 years of electronics ive worked on/with most people mention how heat destroies components.. so what do peugeot do for the S16 they go and stick em in the head of a combustion 4stroke engine... briliant, i think that if we had Pug handling, Citroen looks and Renault-turbo power and you would end up with a pretty good frog..
    cheers Xq
    ... ptui!

  21. #21
    Tadpole
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    haha No Dizzy!! LOL
    What controls the timing then? Does the ECU have any say in the matter? This is crazy! eek!

    xqisid I was thinking something along those lines regarding the pinging. So fingers crossed we can kill two birds with one stone.

    Have to wait till after this leaking problem is fixed tho <a href="http://www.aussiefrogs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001334" target="_blank">See Here</a>

    cheers!
    Mike
    Mmmm - two stroke

  22. #22
    Tadpole
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    Hi everyone ,

    I found this post and I am very happy that someone , has encountered this problem before I did , mabe I can get some help ...

    So I need to know something, my car has the diaprhagms connected to the electro-valve , withch I took out , and it is working , but the e-v has two more hose connections , and don't know what goes into those couse I don't have anything connected ... can anyone help me please ??

    mircea

  23. #23
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    Shouldn't this thread be in the 'Technical' section of the forum?

    There's a similar thread going on in there already...

  24. #24
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Technically it should be, however it was originally started in June so was lost until it was brought up by lemnarm just recently.
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  25. #25
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 GTI16
    Shouldn't this thread be in the 'Technical' section of the forum?

    There's a similar thread going on in there already...
    true

    but as there is a similar one there i left this one go as the other one was creating more interest

    if this one creates any great interest i'll merge it in with the other one but as both threads seemed to have been dug up from the deep i'll leave it be for the moment
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