Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Pug72's Avatar
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    Default Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions

    Hi all

    With the impending installation of air con into my 504, I had better firstly upgrade my alternator. It is still the original type (I am assuming 35 amps).

    I have searched and see that a commodore alternator will fit. Is it for a VN commodore as per this link:

    Brand NEW Alternator FOR Holden Commodore VN VP VR V6 | eBay which are 80amps

    Now firstly I can see that I will need to swap over the ribbed pulley for the Peugeot v pulley, then how do I wire it up? Is there a direct feed from the battery to the stud on the back of the alternator, then power from an ignition source?

    Then I need to remove the original voltage regulator from the firewall and toss out? Do I just tape up the wires that attach to the voltage regulator?

    Thanks heaps

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    gererator to alternator conversion.......

    For a Renault, but equally applicable to 504.

    Yes, you need to remove the existing regulator and do a few wiring changes as well. Details are in post #4 of the linked thread in pdf file.

    It would be worth reading through the entire thread, since many incidental issues and other matter are also discussed.

    The Holden/ Bosch alternator is bolt on replacement on the 504, you may need a few spacing washers on the pivot bolt to align the belts grooves. And to put set in the top, tensioner bracket.

    But it's the way to go and improves the electrics no end.

    EDIT: And follow the wiring diagram exactly , otherwise you can fry the electrical system with an output voltage of over 17 volts.
    Last edited by robmac; 16th September 2016 at 12:50 PM.
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    Fellow Frogger! Pug72's Avatar
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    Thanks Robmac

    Yes, I saw this thread, but it talks about a commodore VT alternator which does not look like it will fit a 504.

    Brand NEW Alternator TO Suit Holden Commodore 3 8L Ecotec V6 VS VT VU VX VY 110A | eBay

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    The alternator in the Ebay link is not the alternator referred to in the thread.

    There is an image of the alternator in Graham's mock up wiring, posted in thread.

    And the Bosch model number is in the wiring pdf.

    At $169 the Ebay unit is top odds too.

    I suggest you go to a DIY wrecker and find one for $30 -$50. They are very reliable and you can grab a relay and the plug from donor car too.

    The K1 alternators are single foot mount.
    Last edited by robmac; 16th September 2016 at 01:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug72 View Post
    Thanks Robmac

    Yes, I saw this thread, but it talks about a commodore VT alternator which does not look like it will fit a 504.

    Brand NEW Alternator TO Suit Holden Commodore 3 8L Ecotec V6 VS VT VU VX VY 110A | eBay
    Yeah, you're right. From memory, it's the non-Ecotec Commodore alternators that fit (meaning VP, VR etc.).
    1975 Peugeot 504 GL | 2016 Fiat 500


  6. #6
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_95 View Post
    Yeah, you're right. From memory, it's the non-Ecotec Commodore alternators that fit (meaning VP, VR etc.).
    You just need to go for a walk in the wrecker and find a V* series vehicle with a standard claw pole alternator.

    The general chopped and changed alternators, even on the same car series. You are looking for a claw pole style alternator, not the compact claw, squat types, with more open end caps.
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    So far I have rung a few wreckers in Brisbane and no one seems to have any VP Commodores left to wreck

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    just get a 505 alternator from a car with factory a/c, they have 55amps, job's done.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug72 View Post
    So far I have rung a few wreckers in Brisbane and no one seems to have any VP Commodores left to wreck
    VN series should have the same alternator. Both 6 and V8 have the same alternator.

    Head to a pick it your self wreckers.

    The later V series have the twin leg mounting and are the compact claw type (squat) and aren't as easy to fit.

    I have a feeling some Magnas use the same alternator. But they are hard to get to unless the front is off the car.
    Last edited by robmac; 19th September 2016 at 06:00 PM.
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2pac View Post
    just get a 505 alternator from a car with factory a/c, they have 55amps, job's done.
    505s of any type are far harder to find than Holdens " Australia Own Car"
    Last edited by robmac; 19th September 2016 at 05:55 PM.
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    Many years ago an auto-electrician replaced the alternator on my 504 diesel with one from a Volvo.
    Stephen
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    The reason why I prefer the Holden alternators is the voltage sense feature. Which ensures the battery voltage is always optimal and any resistance in the charging circuit is compensated.

    Not so much an issue Xn engines because the battery is close to the alternator. But other vehicles can have long charging cables.
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    I'll do some more ringing around today. I am assuming that I will need the plug and section of wiring harness from the commodore.

    I can always buy a Holden Commodore VN alternator new from Repco or ebay.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Don't self serve wreckers exist in Brisbane ?

    In Melbourne you can get an alternator for $40 and get to choose a reasonable looking one at that. And get the plug, and relay at the same time.

    I can't see the benefit in paying for someone to pull it off the car and stick it in a warehouse.

    Some of so called reconditioned alternators are "reconditioned" with a rag and a tin of degreaser.

    As with everything on Ebay it's caveat emptor.
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    They do, but finding a VN Commodore alternator was obviously hard to find up in Brisbane....but success....

    This is after I give it a quick clean. I didn't realise until I got home that the plastic plug is missing the metal spring clip, so have ordered one of these.

    Cost me $60 and the bearings feel smooth. It's a genuine Bosch.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions-img_2039.jpg   Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions-img_2040.jpg  

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug72 View Post

    I can always buy a Holden Commodore VN alternator new from Repco or ebay.
    If you can afford it, I'd strongly suggest that...yours is such a nice car. The condition is then a known quantity, rather than one on which the rfegulator or brushes are an unknown quantity.

    Repco would be best because you can deal with actual people over the counter.

    They're $160 on Ebay. How much at Repco ?

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    Repco would be best because you can deal with actual people over the counter
    Some of Repco stores I've been to it would debatable if the staff are worthy of the name "people".

    One of the reasons Repco remain as my least preferred supplier.
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    My biggest concern is getting the wiring correct.

    The direct feed from the positive battery terminal to the 6mm bolt on the back of the alternator is obvious.

    It is the two small wires that connect to the plastic plug on the back of the new alternator are what I am a little confused about.

    From your previous post Robmac, the "L" needs to connected to a small bulb. Is this a direct feed from the positive terminal of the battery?

    Also, the "S" wire is an ignition source. Would I find this feed connected to the current voltage regulator?

    Looking closer at your drawing Robmac, I'll need to pick up a 2W bulb, relay and two fuses.

    Obviously once I connect these two wires to the new alternator, I disconnect and remove the old voltage regulator but I am not sure what it looks like. There are these two units - the dark one under the windscreen washer bottle on the LH inner guard and the silver unit is on the firewall.

    Thanks heaps for your help
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions-img_2041.jpg   Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions-img_2044.jpg  
    Last edited by Pug72; 20th September 2016 at 02:50 PM.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Pug72's Avatar
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    Sorry...more questions!

    Here is a picture of the wiring on the back of the current (no pun intended) alternator. I traced the thicker light brown/cream coloured cable back to the +ve battery terminal so I will be able to use this again on the 85amp alternator as the main battery feed.

    So what are the other two wires? Can I use either of these on the 85amp alternator?

    Thanks heaps
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions-img_2048.jpg  

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug72 View Post
    Sorry...more questions!

    Here is a picture of the wiring on the back of the current (no pun intended) alternator. I traced the thicker light brown/cream coloured cable back to the +ve battery terminal so I will be able to use this again on the 85amp alternator as the main battery feed.

    So what are the other two wires? Can I use either of these on the 85amp alternator?

    Thanks heaps
    The wire that goes to stud terminal, ie to the battery , you will connect to the stud on the new alternator.

    The brown wire on the ring terminal is a ground between the existing regulator and not required for the new alternator.

    Th yellow wire, with the blue lug is the Field terminal, used only with an external regulator.

    To fit a Holden alternator you need to do some rewiring , ie reconfigure what is on the car and add a lamp and relay. This requires some
    new wires to be added.

    Post 4 of this thread gives a circuit diagram of the required work in pdf format. And a lot more information as well.

    gererator to alternator conversion.......

    I've attached it as image, that may be easier

    Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions-img029.jpg
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    Thanks Robmac.

    My only unanswered question remaining is my previous post regarding which is the voltage regulator. I am assuming the silver box on the firewall? So what is the relay on the LH guard under the Windscreen washer bottle?

    And with the wires into the voltage regulator, do I just terminate these when I remove the box?

    Thanks

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug72 View Post
    Thanks Robmac.

    My only unanswered question remaining is my previous post regarding which is the voltage regulator. I am assuming the silver box on the firewall? So what is the relay on the LH guard under the Windscreen washer bottle?

    And with the wires into the voltage regulator, do I just terminate these when I remove the box?

    Thanks
    Hi PUG 72,

    Yep the (usually silver) box on the firewall is the regulator. The Holden alternator has an internal regulator and accordingly the old silver regulator is not used and can be removed.

    You can in fact repurpose the ground and field wires from the alternator to the regulator and use them on the new alternator. Just disconnect at both ends and meter them out to identify which is which.

    You will find an additional wire at the regulator, not going to the alternator, but heading to the fuse box this is 12v + ignition switched this can be reused too.

    If you wish, the alternator warning light can be fitted to 504 cluster. You need to find a lamp socket that fits in dash hole and has both wires isolated from earth. There are a few spare warning lamp "holes" in the cluster.


    You can mount the additional relay at the firewall too. Which is also a convenient and not too obvious place to do wire junctions.

    If you repurpose the existing wires you need to run a new wire to the battery from the firewall position for the alternator "S" terminal.

    And, of course you need to run a new pair of wires to to the cluster for the alternator warning lamp. From the firewall position too.

    But at least you don't end up with new trailing wires across the engine bay and the pug loom is left intact.


    cheers


    Rob

    The relay on the LHS front, as I recall, is a double headlight relay and nothing to do with the alternator.


    I could do a custom drawing for you if it would help.
    Last edited by robmac; 20th September 2016 at 08:05 PM.
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    OR..... make sure the battery is fully charged and with the alternator bolted in place, belts on etc., drive it up to the local auto electrician if you are an electric black spot like me. It took him all of 10 mins and he managed to use the existing alt light on the dash . He did something at the old regulator to achieve this. I can't check for you as car is now sold but the 504 does love some more amps so it is well worth the effort!

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    Fellow Frogger! Pug72's Avatar
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    Thanks heaps for your replies.

    I have looked everywhere locally for a warning lamp to fit into the dash cluster. Closest I can find is this:

    LED Warning Pilot Light RED 12V Prewired CAR Boat Vehicle Dash Sold AS Each | eBay

    Is this suitable?

    Thanks

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug72 View Post
    Thanks heaps for your replies.

    I have looked everywhere locally for a warning lamp to fit into the dash cluster. Closest I can find is this:

    LED Warning Pilot Light RED 12V Prewired CAR Boat Vehicle Dash Sold AS Each | eBay

    Is this suitable?

    Thanks
    You are better off with an old fashioned filament Lamp. You should have a minimum of 2 watt globe . This is needed to "excite" the alternator field.

    I had something like this in mind:

    BA9s - Insulated

    And assumed it would be fitted to a spare position in the cluster.

    If you are prepared to drill a new hole in the car. And isolated socket with A 2 w lamp in it will work.

    Peugeot 504 alternator upgrade questions-pilots.jpg

    Available from:

    http://jaydeeautocables.com.au/uploa...20Lighting.pdf
    Last edited by robmac; 21st September 2016 at 09:02 AM.
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