205 T16 drive review as promised..
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! WRX2PUG's Avatar
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    205 T16 drive review as promised..

    Hi guys, well I'm back in OZ and as promised, here are my driving impressions - I still haven't stopped buzzing..

    Like many Peugeot fans, I have always been in awe of the 4WD turbocharged 205 T16 rally car that dominated the Group-B rally championship in 1985 and 1986 before they, along with the other "monster" cars of that era were banned from rallying in 1987. In 1984, Peugeot homologated around 200 road-going versions in slate-grey with another 30 or so in white with the Peugeot Talbot Sport racing colours as per the rally car. Anyone that has ever read a road test of the road-going 205 T16 will note the unimpressive 7.2 seconds 0-100km/h (or thereabout) specifications. This is primarily due to it being around 1175 kg compared to the rally car at 900kg or less combined with the fact that the cars ran quite low boost whilst retaining a CR of around 6.5:1. This resulted in a power output of around 200bhp compared to around 500bhp and above in the rally car. Given the low CR it is fairly easy to raise boost and severely increase power in these cars and for this reason, many of the 200 road-going versions were tuned to rally spec by amateur rally drivers and unfortunately crashed leaving an apparent 30 or so spread around the world.

    For the last year or so, in parallel to sorting out my 205-Mi16, I have been tracking down as many as possible of the remaining cars with a view to eventually buying one and Yes, I am a dreamer but also quite a determined one. As a bit of a reality check, this is no cheap option. By the time the car is purchased, freighted and the various duties and taxes paid you are looking at well over A$100,000.. and I do mean WELL over. Despite these initial challenges, it is still something I’m looking to do and I have so far tracked down 6, spread around the world.

    I was lucky enough to meet up with one owner last week and to actually drive my first 205-T16. To me, this was an absolute dream come true - something I really feel priveledged to have done and I thought it would be worthwhile sharing my impressions:-

    Firstly, driving into a carpark and actually seeing the car in the metal (or fibreglass as many panels are comprised) is an absolute event in itself. They are still a small car but have a real presence, with its widened track, flared arches and huge side-intakes for the rear mounted motor. It just looks awesome from every angle no matter how many times you walk around it. The rear sits low and wide with the 3 slats going the width of the car. The sides show bulges from every angle like a pit-bull and the front with the air-intake to cool the front-mounted radiator is just dominating. I spent about half an hour just walking around the car, taking pictures and looking in awe at the rear engine bay with it's beautiful offset 1800cc motor, the highly visible turbocharger and each of the rally spec components – the engineering is just beautiful to look at.

    The owner was as passionate as I am about these cars and we shared stories and facts about the car. He knew every bit of history and the car was in absolutely pristine condition, having being used primarily for car shows. When I was offered a test drive, I just couldn't refuse.

    Getting into the car on the left hand side (all homologated cars were left-hand-drive) was not abnormal for me as I spend a lot of my time driving left-hand-drive cars, but it had been a long time since I had drive a left-hand drive manual, so this was going to be interesting. Looking around the cockpit, which is what it felt like with the engine bay just behind you, a lot seemed familiar but I was faced with a significantly larger array of gauges for oil temperature, pressure, boost etc spread across the dashboard. The first thing I noticed was the very heavy clutch which took a fair amount of pressure to engage. The gear-shift felt absolutely solid - just beautiful and quite different to my Mi16 gearbox in shift-feel. The seats were firm but comfortable with what seemed to be quite good support. I put the car in neutral and turned the key, not quite knowing what to expect. The car burbled into life instantly and although not hugely intrusive the noise enveloped the entire car with a beautiful, low burbling sound not unlike a WRX except the engine was right behind us! I engaged reverse which is to the right and down and let the clutch out - I didn't stall it so, so far so good.

    The steering was beautifully direct and the overwhelming feeling that I had with the car was solid and muscular - it felt like it had been milled from solid titanium, with each part so tightly bound to the other. I accelerated smoothly in first gear and not wanting to accelerate too hard in first, engaged second at reasonable revs – the gearchange was just beautiful, almost like a click-click and very unlike any Peugeot I had driven before - it felt quite like an MX5 box if anyone has driven one. In second, I let it rev a bit higher waiting for the turbo to kick in. The feeling here was similar to a Porsche 930 turbo. Not so much in terms of acceleration because it isn’t running high boost, but more-so in terms of the transition as the low CR makes the motor quite dull and lethargic until it receives boost and then quite suddenly it starts to pull and keeps pulling. You just know that with some serious boost this thing would be an absolute animal that would rip tar and pull you rapidly towards the horizon. Another click-click and I was in third and the car started pulling harder. The engine at higher revs sounds just awesome - you can hear it working just behind you and it just begs to be revved out. It was then that I noticed that the gauge was in km/h and we were starting to do some serious speed seriously quickly. Given the rarity of the car I backed off a bit and changed into 4th. Although I didn’t push it hard, you could definitely feel the 4WD drive-train working through the corners and I have to say it seemed to provide more positive feedback to the driver than the WRXs that I am so used to. That was probably the overriding feeling, one of being totally connected to the road. It was not that you felt every bump (as I do in my 205-Mi16) but that you felt all that was necessary and that every move of the steering wheel was instantly translated to a proportional result. Fifth gear is really very much of an overdrive, in fact I would say that the gear ratios are not that dissimilar from those in a Mi16.

    We drove back to the carpark at normal pace and it was clear that this was a car that could be driven in traffic with little fuss although the heavy clutch action would take some getting used to on longer trips. The brakes were solid and progressive although like most 205’s I have driven, the pedal feel was soft. There were none of the usual creaks and groans that I was used to from my 205 chassis and suspension, everything just worked. The suspension was solid with almost no body roll. The extra track of the car wasn’t really noticeable and it certainly didn’t feel heavy. I just enjoyed each gearchange, the burble and then intense roar of the motor just behind us, each turn of the steering wheel and each time the turbo started to pull, knowing that with more boost this would be awesome.

    To be honest it is difficult and probably unfair to compare this car to anything that we are familiar with today, especially on a short drive like this at medium pace. That said, it does not take long to realize that the car is something special and capable of excellent handling and very rapid acceleration. It didn’t take long for me to feel part of the car and to start imagining the history and the awesome drivers that drove the monster rally prepared versions. I started imagining the car arriving in Australia, I saw it sitting in my favourite tuning shop and the new ECU and turbo going in and I could see myself adding just one more line to the budget – some plastic surgery to get this permanent smile off my face !!!

    Out of respect for the owner of this vehicle, I haven’t made any high quality images available at this stage but the ones below should at least give you some angles you probably wouldn’t have seen before.

    I will continue to dream.. AND PLAN !!

    Cheers to all
    Steve

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    Renault Clio F1R27 road car and Supercharged Lotus Elise track car

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    I I I ddd lll like t to rrr rrrepp ply but afffter reading this annd ss ss seeingg th th th ppp picss....i ve suddenly developed a nervous twitch around my mouth....my right foot has become awfully twitchy 2.....i ii i nnn need 2 ttt take ssso me pillllsss 2 cccccalm my my my my self dddownnnnn....

    seriously mate....great story and pics..a wunderfull experience i m sure u will never forget....

    cheers
    dino

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    All i can say is .....

    Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for "sharing the spirit"

    ashleyt

    --------
    1993 205GTI Sorrento Green
    1990 205GTI Red - Track Car ("431")

    EC:2:02.18, WP:1:16.07, OP 54.27, OPGP 1:28.83, Huntley 32.34

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    drooooooooooooooooooooooooool
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
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    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    :| you lucky son of a B$^&$#####.

    hih nah no hard feelings...

    what a experience to be had... wink

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
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    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! BW205's Avatar
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    That car is a MINT!!!

    Absolutely well kept.

    Wordless
    roll_lau
    Cheers
    Billy
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! michaelh's Avatar
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    is this one still for sale?
    <a href="http://www.carclassic.com/html/DD63.htm" target="_blank">http://www.carclassic.com/html/DD63.htm</a>
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  8. #8
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    michaelh:
    is this one still for sale?
    <a href="http://www.carclassic.com/html/DD63.htm" target="_blank">http://www.carclassic.com/html/DD63.htm</a>
    Michael, it appears as though it is still for sale 55,000 Euro's = about $98,000.00 AUD add shipping duty etc etc.... eek! eek!

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................. .................................more drewll .................................................. ............................. as ash said TY!!! cheers Xq
    ... ptui!

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! AU-YT's Avatar
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    Hi Micheal
    Great story.
    The price will probably remain at that level.
    Years ago I was told of a Lancia stratos in Newmea for $13,000AUD. that to me may as well been 130,000. now real ones fetch 150,000. plus with better than original replicars fetching
    85,000.
    My point is life is too short buy the car.
    but dont expect it to appreciate.
    Bit of advice do your home work on the importation throughly so there are no surprises.
    Best wishes
    Graeme
    I took a photo of one in Montecarlo in trafic and my wife was horified I fet privledged just to have seen one.
    PS if you want a good replica Stratos Ferrari engine abd all I know a bloody good one best part is you can still buy them and the parts.

  11. #11
    Cal
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    Oh my! Thank you so much for that. a_drink

    Cal.

    <small>[ 04 June 2003, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Cal ]</small>
    1995 Mazda MX5 - 2F Race Car
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  12. #12
    XTC
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    WRX2PUG:
    Hi guys, well I'm back in OZ and as promised, here are my driving impressions - I still haven't stopped buzzing..
    --------------------
    205 MI16 and 205 CTi FOR SALE!
    Steve it used to be only one car for sale .. is it now both Who'd blame you - some people would give-up their first born for a T16 hahahah roll_lau

    XTC206
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
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    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    I've created a monster! Do you want to sell my 205 back to me? There was a T16 in the UK not so long ago for 20,000 pounds - a steal. I'm pretty sure it was at Duncan Hamilton.
    Jash

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    C-Red

    You've posted on PF more than once that you would love another 205. Nows your chance to get one, and its YOUR OLD CAR !!!! head_ban

    Darren

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Wow, What can I say, except WOW.

    This is the car that got me interested in Rallying and in Peugeots!

    You are my hero.

    I really really hope your dream comes true and you manage to buy one.

    Awwwww MATE!!!!!!

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! WRX2PUG's Avatar
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    Hey Jeff, you're right - I have turned into a bit of a 205 T16 monster. I'm really enjoying the 205 Mi16 now - just needs a little (read a lot ) more power and boy oh boy am I lusting after a real one now..

    Cheers
    Steve
    Renault Clio F1R27 road car and Supercharged Lotus Elise track car

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    Since we're talking about dreams. I wonder what would be involved in making a replica? Cheaper? Maybe when I finish my Engineering degree i could start a company. spanner question

    Marc
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    two-oh-philic:
    Since we're talking about dreams. I wonder what would be involved in making a replica? Cheaper? Maybe when I finish my Engineering degree i could start a company. spanner question

    Marc
    That is a damn good idea.
    A few years ago ('96 I think) there was one for sale in Germany for DM44,000.
    They crap all over the MG Metro 6R4, and I wouldn't turn one of those down either!
    Pugs Rule!

    403, now sold
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    2010 Mitsubishi i MiEV electric car

  19. #19
    XTC
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    C-Red:
    I've created a monster! Do you want to sell my 205 back to me? There was a T16 in the UK not so long ago for 20,000 pounds - a steal. I'm pretty sure it was at Duncan Hamilton.
    Jash
    You may have sold it to Steve, but you'd have to fight past a few other people in the queue in front of you that would be quite willing to take Steve's Mi16 off his hands (for a fair price of course).

    XTC206
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    Ne1 got an idea of how much it would cost to:
    a) get the designs
    b) build it?
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    WOW!!

    What an awsome car! That is a great story.

    I wonder if Peugeot may consider releasing a road going version of the 206WRC?

    surelly a road going turbo charged 4WD 206 is not outa the question wink
    tongue

    <small>[ 22 June 2003, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: n b j ]</small>
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