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Thread: Hot 505

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Hot 505

    All,

    I am currently starting to build a really stinking hot 505, I was wondering how it's going to go ? and if anyone has seen a 505 with these mods before.....I am assuming it wont muck about though !

    It's going to have a stinking hot ported & polished 504 head...fully modified to use 2x DCOE WEBBER carbies, I am going to look for a set of extractors or a big bore manifold off an early 505...

    Also it is going to be getting a hot cam put in it as well....

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    Any other suggestions on how to make this car go better ? It will be going into a 1981 505 GR Body...

    Cheers Ben.....
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  2. #2
    nJm
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    I've seen a 504 which had a totally rebuilt engine and twin webers on it, and it was pushing about 150 horses... about 110kw i think. Compared to its current 71kw it should fly!

    approve
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Were the DCOE Webbers or normal top draft webbers's ?

    a_drink *this has no use...just had to use it*

    Ben mallet
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  4. #4
    nJm
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    sorry, cant remember mallet
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    I have to say I am looking foward to owning a 505 again ! I kinda miss my old beast !

    It was an 82 SRD Turbo head_ban ...it was a slug

    Ben a_drink
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





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    Ben,
    Use 2 45 mm Webers (one b!) with around 34 mm venturis. Use a TI head but you will probably have to downsize the inlet ports to 36 mm from the normal 39m.(use "Devcon" filler). In no way should you enlarge them. An SLI head has 36mm ports standard and would be better. I have seen many motors built to this spec but hardly any go any good, due I think to the port size being too large.
    You will have to get an inlet manifold made, not difficult and you will need a distributor extension.
    A Wade 140 cam will work well, but you will have to machine the tops of the pistons to clear the inlet valves. Don't go any higher than about 9.5 to 1 compression. The big bore manifold will work fine.
    Fit an STI front end, in fact fit STI everything in the suspension department. At the very least replace the rear antiroll bar with one from a 504.
    By the time you do all of this it is probably cheaper to fit a V6, the webers will cost heaps to tune and the car will only be of use in competition.

    Regards, Graham Wallis

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    I already have the twin DCOE's and the head is already done....

    I am also getting a 640 lift cam for it as well!

    We will see how it goes

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  8. #8
    nJm
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    does replacing the rear antiroll bar on a 505 GR with one from a 504 improve it??
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Yes, it is 1mm thicker and makes a noticeable improvement. A 604 bar is the biggest available 2 mm thicker.

    Graham

  10. #10
    nJm
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    Would it be better to track down a 604's bar?

    i need to do the bushes on the 505, so I'll replace the rollbar then
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Graham.....Alan Robertson said to tell you.....this car will go like STINK !

    Alan said you would remember him

    Cheers

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  12. #12
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I guess each to his own, but I'd start with a manual GTi. Surely there's more hp and torque in there, than in a 504 motor?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    I dont think so somehow !!
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





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    Just a quick question.What is a 640 lift cam?

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    So why does a 2L OHV carb. motor potentially have more hp and torque than a 2.2L OHC f.i. motor?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    From talking to people it is not likely that a 505 GTI will be as powerful as a hotted up 2 litre.....I mean lets be realistic the 505 GTI is not really a very powerful car...infact I think they are fairly pedestrian in there performance !

    Unlike a 405 Mi16....now thats a different story

    Anyhow head_ban

    Cheers!

    Ben mallet
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  17. #17
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    A std. GTi has similar power and torque to the V6. I didn't think it was that bad. Surely you could spin the STi/GTi motor higher, and thus make more hp? Unless there's something fundamentaly wrong with the engine design (like the 250cu/4.1L Falcon), there has to be more potential. I don't have any experience in either, so really don't know. Does anybody?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  18. #18
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    The STI 2.2 motor doesn't get going untill 3,500 RPM and then dies at 5,000. I competed in a rally in one and it felt like driving a standard 403 performance wise. Also, it used a lot more fuel than a V8 Mustang competing in the same event!
    My wifes STI needed the Air Con to be turned off at the lights to avoid holding up traffic.
    The Gti will rev a little higher but at the expense of bottom end torque. The general consensis is that they are a dud thing. The 2 litre version of this motor is probably better.
    The push rod motor will rev to 7,000 and 8,000 is possible without too much trouble.
    Alan Robertson did the head on my hot 403. This has only now needed to be replaced due to cracks. This engine has certainly opened a few eyes over the past 14 years or so.

    Graham Wallis

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Alan sure knows his stuff hotting up earlier Pugs !
    He has had this car going before with the twin DCOE's he said it had BAGS of power....so I am assuming it will still have them

    But the head going on is a highly modified 404 head that Alan designed and build some years back...should be sweet head_ban

    Anyhow

    Cheers Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  20. #20
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Im afraid all this talk is way out of my league. blush Id love to have a ride in this 505 when It is finally finished. It would go like a rocket I would think. Maybe one day.... dance

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    For sure.....if you are ever in Hobart thats No Problem !!

    Cheers Ben !

    Maybe even have a a_drink
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Ben,

    How the hell are you going to fit so much cam lift into the block?

    I agree with pretty much everything Grahm Wallis said.

    On a road going 2 litre 505 it might be better to use a Wade 240 cam (30/70) rather than go as wild as the 140 (40/70).

    An XN1 head with the side milled out of it and then welded up to give 4 separate 36mm ports might be the go, unless you can find an XN6 head.

    Twin 40mm DCOE Webers would be as large as I would go on a road going 2 litre. If the engine is going to make more than 155hp then the 45mm Webers are worth while, but engines built to below this spec will generally loose power and driveability if 45mm carbs are used. If you want to go larger then injection is often a safer bet.

    I guess if you already have 45mm carbs and a TI head lying around, like you said, then that's what you use.

    Having said all this, these are my future plans for a hot one of these engines:

    -block bored and fitted with pressed in modified Citroen Cx liners, liners bored to 93.5mm to fit Ford 6 cylinder pistosn (with 1mm shaved from top to give 38mm compression height) to give 2225cc
    -TI head with 44.5mm inlet valves and 37.5mm exhausts
    -combustions chambers welded to raise compression and give squish areas
    -long intake runners with Quad 50mm injection throttle bodies
    -Wade 140 cam

    I think 160-175hp and 205-225Nm of torque is possible, this way, and cheaper than you may think (providing you build the computer yourself, and the throttle bodies, and do the headwork yourself, all of which I plan to do).

    Dave McBean

    <small>[ 21 June 2002, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>

  23. #23
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    Errr Why not just fit a SR20DET. It may be a jap motor, but you can't beat a Modern EFI Turbo to make something shit hot.

    and you still keep the good bits out of a Peugeot, I really wouldn't call a pug motor overly special.
    Peugeot...
    ...The True Lion

  24. #24
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    I forgot to mention that I want to put this motor in a lightened 504.

    On the subject of othe engines:

    505 GTi motor:
    apparently goes well with twin webers and can probably get more horsepower per litre than the XN engine due to better head and rocker design, but it's not as tough a motor as the XN, nor is it anywhere near as easy to work on.

    V6:
    can probably get more power power litre than either of them due to big valves and short stroke, but V6 conversions require a number of very expensive things:
    -piston and sleeve kit
    -engineers certificate
    -bellhousing
    -gearbox input shaft
    -Graham Wallis & Pugrambo and other have done this conversion cheaper than you could probably do it now, because they and others have used up most of the supply of bits needed for the conversion, in Australia.

    I think that a basic rebuilt stock V6 conversion is definitely way on the wrong side of $2000 these days. I know I can build myself a pretty damn hot XN motor for that. Sure the V6 would be ALOT faster, but I think an 160hp, 200Nm XN is more than enough to have plenty of fun. Having said that, I'd really like to try a modified 200hp+ V6 conversion, one day.

    I'm looking at around $1500 bucks for the big bore conversion to the XN block (at Westend performance in Campbelltown), plus $300 worth of ICs, wiring, etc to build the computer, plus $500 to have the head welded and larger valves fitted, plus 200 for engine balancing, plus $100 for a special big bore headgasket, plus a few hundred dollars for me to make the inlet manifold and get four 50mm injection throttle bodies fitted to it and make myself the linkages, etc. All the rest needed for the wild 2225cc conversion is pretty cheap.

    Dave McBean

    <small>[ 21 June 2002, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger!
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    The Pupat:
    Errr Why not just fit a SR20DET. It may be a jap motor, but you can't beat a Modern EFI Turbo to make something shit hot. .
    Agreed. But maybe we just want to do, what we want to do.

    Dave McBean

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