505 auto choke adjustment specifics anyone?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 505 auto choke adjustment specifics anyone?

    I've just bought an auto '84 505 to drive around while I finish my other 505 (why does that sound so dumb when I write it?) and the auto choke badly needs adjustment - it revs VERY high on a cold start and stays on till the cooling fan engages which is about 20-25 minutes after starting. There's often lot's of black smoke too till it warms. I've searched the topic on this site but have not found specific info on adjusting the choke. I had a look inside the carby immediately after shutting off the engine and saw petrol still trickling down into the carby from a nozzle thingy. It stopped after about 15 secs. - is this normal? Can anyone tell me the step by step proceedure for adjusting the choke? (or at least getting it to rev less and stay on for a shorter time.) Haynes is too ambiguous/unclear.

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    Last edited by Nisspug; 9th April 2004 at 08:36 AM.

  2. #2
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    You can adjust them. There should be a circular shaped sort of thing at the top of the carb thet the chike linkages go into. You either turn this or there is an adjustment inside it.Haven't done one for years so I can't be more specific.

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    Fellow Frogger! Jason Morris's Avatar
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    Hi, do you know which model of carby it is ? I have a 505 factory manual with a couple of solex's in it - if it matches I can scan/email the procedure for auto choke. (I have done it on an '89 505 wagon I had, but needed to borrow and machine a copy of a speical Pug tool etc....but I suspect your carby is an earlier one)

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    nJm
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    I could be wrong, but it will most likely be a Solex 32-35 TMIMA. That is what is fitted to my '83 505.

    Actually Nisspug is quite lucky to have found one with a choke that works at all! I have to sit in my car for a minute or two holding the revs at 1500rpm with the accelerator before I drive off in the morning.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Fellow Frogger! Jason Morris's Avatar
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    I've just checked, my data is for the Solex 32/34 CISAC and 34/34 CISAC sorry !

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisspug
    I've just bought an auto '84 505 to drive around while I finish my other 505 (why does that sound so dumb when I write it?) and the auto choke badly needs adjustment - it revs VERY high on a cold start and stays on till the cooling fan engages which is about 20-25 minutes after starting. There's often lot's of black smoke too till it warms. I've searched the topic on this site but have not found specific info on adjusting the choke. I had a look inside the carby immediately after shutting off the engine and saw petrol still trickling down into the carby from a nozzle thingy. It stopped after about 15 secs. - is this normal? Can anyone tell me the step by step proceedure for adjusting the choke? (or at least getting it to rev less and stay on for a shorter time.) Haynes is too ambiguous/unclear.
    A few weeks ago I replied to an email about this topic. The email bounced. Was it you? Anyway, if you send me an email and a valid email address I will resend the information and service bulletin on the choke adjustment tool for this carburettor.

    Denis

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    Thanks Denis, yes it was me - I'll send you another email, my account is definitely working, don't know what went wrong.

    Thanks anyway Jason. Yes it is a TMIMA carby. It starts first turn which is excellent but the @#$*# thing won't turn off quick enough! Any ideas about the dripping petrol inside the carby?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisspug
    Thanks Denis, yes it was me - I'll send you another email, my account is definitely working, don't know what went wrong.

    Thanks anyway Jason. Yes it is a TMIMA carby. It starts first turn which is excellent but the @#$*# thing won't turn off quick enough! Any ideas about the dripping petrol inside the carby?
    Well both email addresses you gave bounced back - so do you have any suggestions? I'll try the private email on thiis forum.

    Denis

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    nJm
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    I was wondering, have you actually tried what is outlined in the manual for driving the car? Mine says to deactivate the autochoke you give the accelerator a sharp jab.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  10. #10
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    Ithink I've tried this Nick but I will try it again just in case.

    Denis, I got your private email on the forum without an attachment. Which post did you attach it to?

    I've just got a spare carby so I will try to work out how this sucker works, or maybe fit it to the car if I can't adjust the old one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisspug
    Ithink I've tried this Nick but I will try it again just in case.

    Denis, I got your private email on the forum without an attachment. Which post did you attach it to?

    I've just got a spare carby so I will try to work out how this sucker works, or maybe fit it to the car if I can't adjust the old one.
    Andrew,

    I'll try to attach the service bulletin here ... they show the adjustment tool ... and somewhere in my garage I have one of them. As I said in my email, the business card is the name of the fellow who made the adjustment tool - but I think he is not in business now - at least I couldn't find him.

    Denis
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 505 auto choke adjustment specifics anyone?-choke001.jpg   505 auto choke adjustment specifics anyone?-choke002.jpg   505 auto choke adjustment specifics anyone?-choke003.jpg   505 auto choke adjustment specifics anyone?-choke004.jpg  

  12. #12
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    Excellent! Thanks for the pics Denis. I will have a closer look when I have some more time.

  13. #13
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    Well, partial success at this choke thing! I put on a spare carby I had which isn't leaking fuel like the old one but was still reving high. With the help of Denis's pics I have succeeded in turning the idle revs down by turning screw nr.3 as seen on Denis's last pic. This carb seems to almost completely open the choke(ie turn it off) when the engine is warm and doesn't blow the black smoke the old one did! I'd still like it to be able to adjust it properly so that it turns off fully when warm so I was wondering if there is anyone in Melb. who has the Peogeot choke adjusting tool who wouln't mind lending it to me? Or failing that any repair place that has it that will quickly do it for me without the usual "leave it for the whole day"scenario.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    Here are the specifics, the tool while handy is not necessary and does not compensate for worn throttle shafts which you probably have.

    Ensure that the wax capsule does work in that the little rod extends when hot, if its OK check the lever which closes the choke flap is 2mm from the bevelled end of the choke housing when the engine is at normal running temp. This is awkwardly adjusted by sticking a screwdriver into the grub screw which acts on the end of the rod of the wax capsule. The small screwdriver must go in through the side of the housing inside the big spring.

    The next step is to adjust the opening limit of the choke flap this is affected by adjusting the grub screw and locknut in the centre of the diaphragm on the side of the choke housing. Get a 7mm drill bit and start the car, ensure the choke is in full on state and adjust the grub screw so that the top of the choke plate is 7mm from the side of the thoat, the drill is the measuring device here.

    The next and final phase is to adjust the cold idle, this is where some trial and error is needed. The book says that when the engine is hot with the choke forced to the fully on state the car should be running at around 2500 rpm depending on model. I suggest you use this as a start point and crank this adjustment down to something your happy with. The fast or cold idle is adjusted by adjusting the little grub screw that is on the arm that goes down to the throttle linkage from the choke unit. Do this over a number of days so you know how the car behaves when its cold.

    I also assume here that the water supply to the wax capsule is OK as is the vacuum supply to the bellows that opens the choke flap.

    You must do the adjustments in this order, I believe this to be a very reliable choke system when adjusted properly.
    Last edited by OddFireV6; 4th June 2004 at 10:04 AM. Reason: I made a small blue
    OddfireV6
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  15. #15
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    Thanks for the info OddfireV6. How can I test the wax capsule-drop it in a pan of hot water and measure the rods length before and after?

    Can one get new wax capsules?

    Is the grubscrew in the hole a normal slotted one?

    Should the engine be cold when adjusting with drill bit?

    Which "bellows" opens the choke flap?

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    Because you describe that the idle does come down albeit too slowly I suspect your wax capsule is OK.

    Anyway the wax capsule is best tested in the car because it needs to work against spring pressure. So take the side cover off and remove the air cleaner plumbing so that you can see what the choke flap is doing. While the engine is cold run it, feel the hoses to see if warm water is getting to the wax capsule and you should after a few minutes observe the mechanism moving, the choke flap slowly opens to a fully vertical position and the fast idle comes down to normal idle.

    Once the engine is warm and the choke is off you can push down on the metal boss with a white plastic roller behind it and familiarise your self with the operation of the choke unit. Pushing the mechanism down to the lowest limit replicates the choke fully on, when you do this the idle should come up and the choke flap close to within the 7mm, you will note that the flap pulses in time with the beat of the engine. If you held the choke on and the engine stopped the flap closes fully.

    When ‘cold’ running the choke flap is held open to 7mm by vacuum operating on the diaphragm. The diaphragm is on the opposite end of the choke housing to the wax capsule, it has a cover plate held on by 4 screws in the centre of which is a grub screw and locknut. Pull this apart and check that the diaphragm is still soft pliable and has no holes in it. If this is faulty this would explain the black smoke, since you describe the car as too rich at start up it may be the choke flap is not opening enough and so an overly rich mixture occurs.

    While I haven’t bought a wax capsule for a few years I’m sure they are still available, the last one I bought was $65, they are sometimes also referred to as a waxstat.

    The grubscrew has a small slotted head to so a normal small screwdriver with a longish shaft is used here.
    Last edited by OddFireV6; 1st June 2004 at 11:16 PM. Reason: grammar
    OddfireV6
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  17. #17
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    mmm. The lever you mention is nowhere NEAR the bevelled edge of the choke housing on my carby when the engine is cold and not running! It's about 15cm away from it! So I started the engine and it came up closer (the instructions Denis posted says to have engine running when doing this too). I can adjust it to about 5cm of the bevel edge before the screw seems to run out of adjustment and it just keps turning without anything happening. Any idea why this is? With it adjusted to 5cm and the choke opening adjusted with a 7mm gap the motor is running pretty good and I'm beginning to understand how the whole thing works! I've got a feeling that the rough running on cold startup that alot of 505 owners complain about is due to the choke initial opening gap being too small which literally chokes the engine until it warms up a bit and opens up. Just a thought. Anyway mine no longer does this-it runs smooth as a babies right from cold. Thanks ODDFIREV6.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisspug
    mmm. The lever you mention is nowhere NEAR the bevelled edge of the choke housing on my carby when the engine is cold and not running! It's about 15cm away from it! So I started the engine and it came up closer (the instructions Denis posted says to have engine running when doing this too). I can adjust it to about 5cm of the bevel edge before the screw seems to run out of adjustment and it just keps turning without anything happening. Any idea why this is? -snip-
    Are you sure you are measuring to the correct lever?
    The 2mm dimension is shown in the diagram at the top of page 3 of the adjustment specs that I posted. I don't think 15 cm would be possible - so perhaps another look may allow you to get the adjustment precisely correct.
    Denis

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    Oops, Nisspug you are quite correct on the first setting, the 2mm from the top lever to the housing as in Denisís diagrams is a normal running temp setting, I will edit the earlier post.
    OddfireV6
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  20. #20
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    Yes, sorry, I meant the lever was 15mm(!) from the beveled edge, not 15cm. I now have it at 5mm - any idea why it runs out of adjustment?

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