403 Engine Conversion
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  1. #1
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    403 Engine Conversion

    Ok lets test some noggins on this one
    i am going to put a 504 motor with a stinkin hot head in a 403 not to bold up the engine to the gearbox i figure changing the bell housing will fix that part of things not to bold the engine to the body what engine mounts will i need? 504 404? any help appreciated thanks dance

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  2. #2
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    There are two ways of making the engine stand up straight.

    1. Cut a 404 C3 bellhousing through the middle and reweld 45 degrees around. You will then have the normal problems of mating a 504 engine to a C3 gearbox. I have a jig to drill 7 holes in a 404 flywheel so you can use an early pressure plate. Otherwise you can fit an Austin 1800 throw out pad to a diaphragm pressure plate and use the normal carbon throw out bearing. Builds up your leg muscles!

    2. The other method involves a BA7 box and an adapter plate, not sure of the details but I can find out if you like. You will then probably need to make a floorshift as well.

    The next problem is to find somwhere to put the oil pump,the front cross member has already taken the normal spot!
    I have heard of one car that had a modified three bearing 404 pump, but am unsure of the details.
    A method which has been used a couple of times is to fit a 504 TI front timing cover with a Datsun 1200 oil pump fitted instead of the injection pump and driven by the usual plastic toothed belt.
    The sump will of course have to be remanufactured and ground clearance will suffer.
    Handling will also suffer as a 504 motor is a fair bit heavier than the 403 motor.

    It is actually a lot easier to fit a 6 cylinder Holden motor and as far as I know an L series Datsun motor will fit without trouble. My dream conversion would be a Renault 16TS motor, but it doesn't seem like it will fit.
    A couple of people I know are considering 2.2 Douvrin motors but haven't done any research.

    My 403 has a twin webered 1600 bored 203 block, that goes harder than any 504 engine, but was expensive to build and is really only for competition. Mind you it has been reliable, 10 years between rebuilds and even then the only problems were that the big ends were starting to break and the timing chain was losing its rollers.

    Hope the above is of help, but keep in mind that everyone who has carried out the 504 conversion wished they had never started!

    Regards, Graham Wallis

  3. #3
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    Sorry, that should have been "the big end shells were starting to break up"
    Graham

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Graham , I have memories of people boring out 403's, putting in Bedford van pistons and then supercharging them in the late 60's / early 70's. Does anyone still go down this path these days?

    Cheers

    Rod
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  5. #5
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    Rod,
    No I haven't heard of that conversion, I've always used 404 pistons and liners. I've seen too many liners crack after being bored out.
    On another subject do you know Julia Murray?

    Regards, Graham

  6. #6
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    what is wrong with putting the 403 engine on its side surely that can be done

  7. #7
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    putting the 504 engine on its side i mean

  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    unless you plan on doing a total makeover of the engine bay the 504 engine won't go into the 403 at the original 45 slant
    you will find even with standing the 504 engine up in the 403 engine bay that you are going to be very limited for room as it is
    the 504 enigines actually fit better into a 203 engine bay rather than a 403 one
    i actually prefer grahams way of thinking and working the 403 engine to produce more power
    i have always liked the 404 liners and pistons in the 403 block
    the only thing is you have to keep a couple of custom made head gaskets on hand as i have heard that they can be a little hard to come by when you need one on the spot
    good to have a few spare
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    On another subject do you know Julia Murray?
    Haven't seen her for some time, Graham, but yes, I know her well. I suspect that the 403 I used to tote around Alice Springs in the 1970's might have had something to do with her interest in them.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  10. #10
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    Rod, Yes, she did mention a 403 which inspired her interest. She has sold the car now after spending a considerable sum on restoration which was not well done and hence a source of frustration to her. It was sold with moderate front panel damage but this has been repaired and the car will take part in the 50th anniversay Redex Rerun next year.

    Regards, Graham

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Sad to hear about the restoration work. Was that a blue car? I have memories of helping her look for a motor for it about 20 years back. The 403 that Julia would have remembered is the alpine white 1963 403B on my car page (link below) . Started off its life as one of those two tone pink numbers.

    Just been watching Tubman et al in their 203's on a video of the first three Redex's. Brought back a few memories of toting the old '03 around the back tracks of the Territory.

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 17 June 2002, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I believe the oil pump that's mounted on the TI front housing is the Datsun 1600/180B/200B/Bluebird pump. Sean White (pugrambo) has done this one, IIRC.

    I think the 2.2 engine would bear investigating, as it's already upright and can go in box and all... but again the oil pump will probably be an issue.

    Don't know why a 16TS won't fit, I'd like to... it's a great little engine. Is it because the block comes down so low around the crank? At least with this one the oil pump pickup can be moved, the pump's built into the block.

  13. #13
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    Ray,
    Phil Torode pioneered this set up with a 1200 oil pump but no doubt the others would be suitable as well.
    The 16Ts motor may well fit but I had a discouraging report from a friend who had a look at the possibility.
    Yes, the oil pump may be a problem with the Douvrin motor but there are several versions, Renault etc, and a bit of mixing and matching may make it possible.

    Regards, Graham

  14. #14
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    This may be a bit late, BUT I have for sale a kit to fit a 504 engine into an 03. It comprises a modified sump, a modified TI timing chain housing with lengthened chain to drive the Datsun? oilpump which mounts where the injection pump was originally, modified engine mounts and a custom made manifold to fit a single barrel carb. (probably made for an 1800 engine) I did have a modified clutch housing but seem to have lost it!

    Make an offer - I have sold my 403.
    Phone Don on 0418 894 770.

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