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Thread: The dreaded carbon build up on the intake valves...

  1. #51
    Member thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davo67 View Post
    Hills Eurohaus do the Walnut Blasting. Quoted me $600.
    Called them and was quoted $995 and told it was a min 3 week backlog

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by davo67 View Post
    Hills Eurohaus do the Walnut Blasting. Quoted me $600.
    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Access is sometimes a problem for the smaller models. What car was the quote for, Davo?
    This was for a Citroen ds3 dsport.

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  3. #53
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    I have a little to say on this.
    Over the years I was challenged with the prince engine and oil burning and low power etc.etc.etc.
    It is a very poorly made engine in many ways in my opinion. Apart from the hopelessness of the timing chain assembly and the chain tensioner, which is oil pressure fed only and does not have a one way ratchet to keep adjustment on the chain when starting.
    Hint number 1. ( ratchet deleted to save cost)
    Hint no. 2( we had the same style tensioner on the old skool days. Toyota, MB, etc.)
    Hint number 3, a loose bicycle chain can jump teeth when the tension is slack.

    I have seen engine dripping down valve stems several hours after removing the exhaust to change the blocked Cat. Blocked from? Carbon. Burnt oil deposits.
    Coking of the valve in the inlet once happened when engines ran cooler and the inlet valve would cool the fuel which would leave deposits. Think about engine oil dripping onto the inlet valve head. Carbon build up might occur? Oil can the go into the cylinder this way too. Oil explodes and we know have a prince engine with a pinging fault.
    Not to mention the piston ring sealing. Blowby past the rings after a ping event bought on by oil in the chamber. That quickly destroys the ring and we have worse oil problems.

    They are fixable and work fine when everything is in good order. My thoughts are,
    Carbon build up in the inlet, on the exhaust valves, blocked mufflers and Cats. Engine pinging oil burning, smoke. Vacuum lines failing on turbo engines from, you guessed it, oil damage. Low boost , blow-by, oil in the charge cooler, inlet manifold etc.etc. comes from a poorly sealing engine internally.

    1/ valve stem sealing
    2/piston ring sealing.
    Are the most obvious items .

    Engine management is another. Poor wiring loom manufacture but the most common is the earthing of the engine management controller and the actuators and sensors. Only found using an oscilloscope often the main earth on the left hand inner guard hidden behind the enclosed battery is faulty.
    Lagging throttle response is often the electronic throttle not responding due to earth potentials at the ECU's main earth points.
    I'm old and out of the game now and I've probably missed other details the highly trained know about, yet may not be able to publicly share.

    Well! I'm glad that's off my chest and the above is only my humble opinion. I admit to not using a capital P for prince as I feel the engine doesn't require that kind of acknowledgement. The 3 cyl Peugeot have I hear is quite the opposite of the last engine.
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  4. #54
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    The 3 cyl EB2 engines have an internal belt drive instead of an internal chain, but continue with pressurised direct petrol injection.

  5. #55
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    Ref: Puretech Motor Peugeot - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RSVaL

    This EB2 engine has a wet belt cam shafts drive with cam-phasers on each cam? I believe the Ecoboost also has this wet belt technology. Does this make changing the belt more difficult or is the life of the belt extended for a much longer period maybe Life of Type? I also noticed the EB2 is a very new design, maybe it does not vent oil mist on the inlet valves (PSA should have learned by now!) and may not suffer the direct injection issues as Subaru, VAG, Prince etc related to modified older designs like the EP6 series, 4 cylinders engines which were a proven Peugeot design updated with a BMW patent head and cam chain system with direct injection to meet EURO6 standards.

  6. #56
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  7. #57
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    I think I find this one more amusing:

    Last edited by SLC206; 6th March 2017 at 11:53 AM.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    I think I find this one more amusing:

    Is it Polish? Dons Peugeot (208 number plates!) disassembles your Puretech 1.2 engine before you buy it? But they didn't check for any carbon build up on the inlet valves? I wonder if they can get it back together without the factory support? (P.S. www.Ricardo.com do these tear down engineering reports then sell them to whoever for about $1000. I guess that is how competitors get access to Peugeot IP?)
    Last edited by halfamill; 6th March 2017 at 05:25 PM.

  9. #59
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    There's an engineering overview of the EB2 in a mixture of French and English at https://www.arts-et-metiers.asso.fr/...mpte_rendu.pdf

    All it has to say about inlet fouling is: Encrassement conduit admission: Réglage distribution. Perhaps someone can explain how timing affects the inlet manifold in a direct injected engine.
    Last edited by seasink; 6th March 2017 at 05:38 PM. Reason: URL

  10. #60
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    Ref: http://www.delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/powertrain/gas
    "Inlet duct fouling, Distribution adjustment" I'm not a thermo-dynamics automotive engineer, but the 'Delphi' cam phasers can alter the inlet timing of the camshaft up to 70 degrees crankshaft degrees. This allows late opening of the inlet valve therefore exposing it to the fuel injection spray. It's all controlled by the ECU, anti knock detector, sensors etc as is the direct fuel injection and ignition. (P.S. The PSA report on the PureTech 1.2 is very detailed. Competitors engines at A & B seem to be the VW 1.4FSI 4 cylinder and The Ford Ecoboost 1Lt 3 cylinder. The Ecoboost 1Lt 3 cylinder is very similar architecture with off set crank, combustion shaped piston crown, exhaust manifold cast into the head and variable oil pump etc etc. There is information about wetting of the inlet valve during the combustion process! This is done by one of the direct injection multi (x3) spray patterns when the inlet valve is open, therefore replicating a port injector wetting of the inlet valve.) Looks like a very sorted engine to me. I have driven a 308 Puretech and goes very well. I could feel confident with this engine.)
    Last edited by halfamill; 7th March 2017 at 10:51 AM.

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    To make sure I have identified it correctly, where exactly is that breather hose into which the cleaner should be sprayed?
    Craig Bourner

    Melbourne, Australia


    2017 Peugeot 308 2.0 HDi SW
    2012 Peugeot 308 1.6 THP

  12. #62
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    Do you mean the EP6DT 1.6 turbo engine?

    If so, at the driver's end, rear of the camshaft cover there is a vent hose connection, which goes to the air intake plenum. If squeezed the right way (magic sometimes helps) it pulls off. It's like a kind of childproof lid. Idle the car and spray away.

    If that fails to come off, or your mojo has failed, you can temporarily remove the turbo pressure sensor, which is on the top of the intake pipe a couple of inches away, but the vent is the proper place.

    At best it only postpones the inevitable, but that can be worthwhile.

  13. #63
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    Update after four years using Subaru SA459, every oil change.

    Fantastic. Recommended.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The dreaded carbon build up on the intake valves...-subaruupperenginecleaner.jpg  
    driven likes this.
    The French Tart… 207cc Sport THP150 and now a RCZ Mk2 THP200

  14. #64
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    Use engine cleaner from French Tart or should that be French Fart.

    Then use BP 98 ALL the time, works a treat

  15. #65
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    How does petrol clean the inlet valves and ports in a direct-injected engine?
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  16. #66
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 207cc Sport View Post
    Update after four years using Subaru SA459, every oil change.

    Fantastic. Recommended.
    I'm reliably informed that CRC Intake Valve Cleaner is a much better product, but I'm yet to find a store in Australia that sells it.

    Many hits on eBay and amazon but "not in stock" is the prevailing theme,

    ivc.jpg
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
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    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    I'm reliably informed that CRC Intake Valve Cleaner is a much better product, but I'm yet to find a store in Australia that sells it.

    Many hits on eBay and amazon but "not in stock" is the prevailing theme,

    ivc.jpg
    I use Liqui Moly intake cleaner, it seems to work well after trying it a couple of times.
    https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...6g/348781.html

    Has anyone tried the cheaper version? SCA throttle body / carb cleaner https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...400g/0238.html ???

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    How does petrol clean the inlet valves and ports in a direct-injected engine?
    I suspect you know this, but on the one engine of this type I've looked at the injector is sited between the inlet valves at quite a flat angle relative to the piston crown and for part of the injection time the valves are open. Part of the multi fan shaped spray pattern aims upwards towards the roof of the combustion chamber over the open angled valve and thus hits the back of the valves as air is drawn into the cylinder and directs the fuel spray over the valve, as per a port injected setup. But this of course doesn't affect the ports.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  19. #69
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    I've never looked at a THP injector under test to see which way it sprays, so I'll have to try and see it. It could help.What I know from experience is that the top surface of the valves gets extremely crudded until it seriously blocks incoming air flow. In the case of my engine the adherent crud was as deep on the valves as on the ports, though both were reducing air passage.

  20. #70
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    Actually I've only seen the Ford Ecoboost setup but was answering your general question, not specifically about the THP.

    I don't think I'd have you guys' patience. It's enough work for me maintaining a 'normal' engine! I take my hat off to you.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  21. #71
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    I have created an interest in Europe with SA459.

    read about it:

    Peugeot RCZ Forum ? Dreaded carbon build up on the intake valves . . . : Drivetrain
    The French Tart… 207cc Sport THP150 and now a RCZ Mk2 THP200

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    I'm reliably informed that CRC Intake Valve Cleaner is a much better product, but I'm yet to find a store in Australia that sells it.

    Many hits on eBay and amazon but "not in stock" is the prevailing theme,

    ivc.jpg
    SA459 is the one - IMO.

    It is very strong. During one application I got a spay on my finger and wiped it off with a cloth. Should have washed it immediately.

    Result: 2nd degree burn on the length of my poor finger.
    The French Tart… 207cc Sport THP150 and now a RCZ Mk2 THP200

  23. #73
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    From a tuner.......very interesting -
    https://www.etuners.gr/peugeot-citro...servicing-101/


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  24. #74
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    Thats a great link and all the info a THP engine owner should know and follow.

    We need to post this as a Sticky

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  25. #75
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    Owners of cars with this engine; would you buy another? Or is the extra hassle worth it? I'm bound to be asked by colleagues, as the 'Euro car guy'.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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