505 GTI exhaust on GR
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  1. #1
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    505 GTI exhaust on GR

    Today I purchased a new 505 GTI exhaust system for $330, for my 2 litre carby 505. Apparently most 505 sedans made from 1984 onwards (i.e, after the GTI was released in Europe) had this same "big bore" exhaust system.

    It is 50mm (just under 2") in diameter after the front muffler, which impresses me considering that they're not a noisy system. The front muffler is the same efficient 45mm (1.75") straight through type, which gives good scavenging and which is also fitted to earlier 505s and 504s. The system is made by Walker and looks to be of quite good quality.

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    It would be difficult to buy a better performance/noise compromise for the price, when you consider that 3 performance mufflers, some pipe and a couple of hours labour would have set me back atleast $250 and it would not have the same engineering thought put into it that the GTI system has. I'm sure it would be more than good enough for any 4 cylinder engine up to 130hp and it shouldn't attract the EPA either.

    I'll give some more feedback after I put it on the car (hopefully tomorrow afternoon, all going well).

    Dave

    <small>[ 02 September 2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! 406_SV's Avatar
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    I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the walker exhaust system Dave. I had the resonator replaced on mine about 18 months ago and ever since, it has sounded like KRAP! It's just a generic "sure fit" thing. It sounds awful at idle (clunky / rattley), and it also develops this unpleasant resonation at and above 110km/h. I mentioned it to my mechanic a while back, and he reckons that for some reason non -genuine exhausts "just do that" and it's no big deal. ...I've looked under it a dozen times and found no holes. It's very odd.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    My '83 STi has the slightly less than 2' exhaust system. I suppose that it was probably replaced. question

    But the tip on the rear silencer fell off a couple of months back. Amazing what 200mm of pipe will do to the noise factor. Fair bit louder now, not too bad I suppose. But the rear box with the 3 pipes isn't looking too healthy. cry

    May have to put the "sports exhaust" mallet whip that I have sitting under my house on.

    Brand new mid muffler slighty smaller than the original (hopefully flows better too, some walker jobby) 2" pipe from the mid muffler back, and well that is about it........ hasn't got a rear silencer. evil

    Reacon that if I do put it on I'll be pulled over in no time....... to find out EXACTLY how loud it is. Pink slip from the car said something like "exhaust NOISY but gas tight." deal

    Jono moon
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! frogs4ever's Avatar
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    Liam Wishart:
    I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the walker exhaust system Dave. I had the resonator replaced on mine about 18 months ago and ever since, it has sounded like KRAP! It's just a generic "sure fit" thing. It sounds awful at idle (clunky / rattley), and it also develops this unpleasant resonation at and above 110km/h. I mentioned it to my mechanic a while back, and he reckons that for some reason non -genuine exhausts "just do that" and it's no big deal. ...I've looked under it a dozen times and found no holes. It's very odd.
    504's (which are almost identical underneath to 505's) have a heat shield above the resonator and a mounting bracket to which the back of the resonator attaches. The whole arangement is a fairly tight fit so I wouldn't be surprised of yours is hitting something. After having an original spec resonator fitted to my 504 recently, it rattled badly at certain speeds. After lots of denial / head-in-the-sand from the mechanic who fitted it, I finally managed to get him to put it back up on the hoist so we could have a look at it. The resonator was just touching the heatshield, hence the noise. A little bending of the mounting bracket and heatshield fixed the problem. It might pay to check for this on your 505.
    2004 Clio Expression Verve 4sp auto -
    1984 Fuego GTX 5 speed (now a write off) -
    1976 504 GL auto (sold)

    French cars, Australian wine.

  5. #5
    nJm
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    It could also be one of the exaughst mounts. The one about 1/2 way down the car was rubbing against the body, and resonating at exactly 2700rpm. Quite annoying, but easy to fix.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Ok, well I put it on the car yesterday afternoon. It fits quite well without hitting anything, so the quality control must be OK, considering that things are pretty tight under there. The centre pipe was made by a dfiffernt company (not Walker), but it all matches up well. I'm quite impressed by the minimal reduction in diameter at the bends of this centre pipe. I don't think it's mandrel bent, but it's almost that good.

    It's much quieter at idle and suburban speeds now, than the two muffler hybrid 1.75"/2" system I had before. It still has a "boom" at 3500-4500rpm (apparently this is normal for leaded GTI exhausts), although it's a subdued "boom" compared to generic 2" systems. I'd say it's a similar "boom" to what I had with the generic 1/5/8" system with two mufflers which was on my 504 when I bought it.

    I may have been able to get a similar flow/noise compromise with a generic 1.75" system with 2 mufflers and a resonator, for maybe $50 less, but the outcome would have been less certain. Also the 50mm "GTI" system would have a much greater strength in bending than smaller diameter systems, which is an important factor in how long the exhaust lasts before it starts to break up. 2" systems generally last alot longer than smaller diameter systems.

    For someone who's 1st priority is quietness much more than performance, I wouldn't recommend this system. The smaller diameter system fitted to earlier 505s would be a better bet for such a person. An alternative would be to fit the system which unleaded GTIs use which has an extra resonator branching off to the side and I think it may be also a smaller diameter.

    I'm happy enough with the flow/noise compromise I got with this system considering that it is a relatively sporty sounding free breathing system which is quiet enough in traffic not to attract the Police or the EPA, which is what I was after. It would be interesting to see what difference mounting a branched off resonator under the back seat would make to the "boom" volume.

    Anyway, if any kind of "boom" at all annoys you, then go for one of the smaller diameter 505 systems, but if you're fairly used to the noise level of "sports" exhausts and just want something which will flow well without attracting too much attention then the big bore 84-85 model 505 "GTI" style system is probably your safest bet.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  7. #7
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    I think some of the muffler packing has burnt out already, because after driving 60km this morning, it now seems a bit louder and more throaty at idle, although freeway driving is the same. My ears aren't so blocked with wax as they were yesterday either, so part of the extra loudness at idle could be attributed to that.

    Excess fuel burning in the exhaust system can cause muffler packing to deteriorate quickly (i.e. if running over-rich due to too-big jetting, choke on, blocked air filter, etc). There's no way around this occuring unless you have a good EFI system which gives the minimum cold start enrichment required, even so, packing will tend to deteriorate after a few years anyway. I think this may be why most standard modern car exhausts rely more on huge mufflers with big resonation chambers, etc, rather than relying so much on the sound absorbing material like they did with the smallish mufflers fitted to cars from the early 1980s and before.

    Anyway, I just thought I'd add these further comments on my experience, incase anyone is thinking of buying one of these exhausts.

    Dave

    <small>[ 05 September 2003, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  8. #8
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    I've now successfully reduced the booming a tad by fitting a piece of 1/7/8" pipe reduced to 1/5/8" up the tailpipe. I had to grind the 1/7/8" section down to about 46.5mm to become a neat fit in the 50mm OD exhaust pipe. I put a small bolt (about 4mm), with a nyloc nut on it, through the side of the pipe to solidly locate the piece. This also makes it easy to remove so I can add differnt lengths of 1.75" pipe to the piece, internally, to experiment a bit with resonance.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

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