504 Ti running poorly
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Thread: 504 Ti running poorly

  1. #1
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    Default 504 Ti running poorly

    Hi All,
    My Ti was running well before I removed and refitted the cylinder head (don't ask why, that's a whole other story!). Now that I have refitted the head and the ancillaries the engine is running very rough. It is blowing black smoke and the exhaust smoke actually burns the eyes because of how rich it is running. The plugs are dry but quite black. And they are all the same.
    When I installed the distributor I didn't push it fully down and the engine turned over but the distributor was stationary. I also connected the coil reverse polarity.
    While trying to start the car the engine misfired or backfired a couple of times in a big way.
    What damage could I have done to cause this problem?
    Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonch504 View Post
    Hi All,
    My Ti was running well before I removed and refitted the cylinder head (don't ask why, that's a whole other story!). Now that I have refitted the head and the ancillaries the engine is running very rough. It is blowing black smoke and the exhaust smoke actually burns the eyes because of how rich it is running. The plugs are dry but quite black. And they are all the same.
    When I installed the distributor I didn't push it fully down and the engine turned over but the distributor was stationary. I also connected the coil reverse polarity.
    While trying to start the car the engine misfired or backfired a couple of times in a big way.
    What damage could I have done to cause this problem?
    Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
    Are all the hoses on the inlet manifold correctly connected?

    Doubt you have damaged anything.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  3. #3
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    Sounds like a torn rubber diaphragm in the injector pump.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Sounds like a torn rubber diaphragm in the injector pump.
    My 1st Thought too.


    Same thing would happen if the vacuum hoses to the top of the pump chamber are incorrect/reversed. Lets hope?
    FedGrapes likes this.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  5. #5
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    Thank for the advice.
    I have rechecked all the pipes and they seem fine. All in the correct location and in good condition.
    Where is the rubber diaphragm in the pump and is there a way to check it without taking the pump out?
    Have also swapped the coil and condenser. No change.
    Initially I thought it was running on 3 cylinders but removing one plug lead at a time changes the way it runs, so I suspect it's not running on 3.
    The exhaust makes a distinct pop, pop, pop noise?
    Greatly appreciate any further advice.

  6. #6
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Tappet too tight?
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

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    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

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  7. #7
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    So suspect its not running on three cylinders, not no3, i had to read that twice myself,if the rubber diaphragm is what monitors air flow ,the back fire could have damaged or jammed it or the mechanism it operates to regulate the mixture causing it to run rich ,seems like you need to do some reading up on ti ,pugs

  8. #8
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    Default 504 Ti running poorly

    Yeah that's right, sorry pugwash, it is running on all 4 cylinders.
    I guess it could be a tight tappet, but after setting them I went back over them and rechecked.

  9. #9
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    In a 404 I would say it's the lever that connects the throttle body to the injection pump, but the 504TI has the diaphragm so I don't know...

    The problem does not sound consistent with head work, something is amiss with the injection.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
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  10. #10
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    I also think it's injection related; torn membrane. There is no vacuum so it feeds fuel as if it is constantly at WOT. One way to check is to drive it at 5000-6000 rpm for a few minutes. If the black smoke is reduced and the car runs smoothly during this test, the membrane is torn.
    BIGRR likes this.

  11. #11
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    Thanks guys. Car not registered, so difficult to take it for a drive to test. Rolly says it's the diaphragm. He's gonna sort it for me.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonch504 View Post
    Yeah that's right, sorry pugwash, it is running on all 4 cylinders.
    I guess it could be a tight tappet, but after setting them I went back over them and rechecked.
    A 5 minute check that the "choke" atomiser at the end of the inlet manifold is operating correctly. May be worth the effort.(?)

    Fitting new membranes to the pump is not that bad of a job. Go slowly, mark, photograph and count the number of turns on all items removed. Fit the new membranes and put everything back together in the original places (Check, marks, photographs and number of turns etc) and "Bobs your uncle.

    Good luck.
    tonch504 likes this.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  13. #13
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    Hi tonch504,
    Just a thought regarding your comment about wiring ignition coil reverse polarity,have you checked the condition of ignition points contact face,spring tension of points (if have been overheated may reduce spring tension loss/reduction),condenser condition?All of these could cause weak spark,misfire,incomplete fuel burning,might be worth checking before delving into governor diaphragm/cold start choke/enrichener position. just a thought Jim
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  14. #14
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    Thanks Jim,
    I swapped the coil and condenser but it made no difference. Removed the distributor and visually inspected it. I couldn't see a problem but I guess that is not a comprehensive test. I must say that as I was removing the spark leads one at a time the start which was jumping to the plug tubes was quite large. So I think the ignition system is is ok.

  15. #15
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    The fact that there is an rpm drop as you disconnect each spark plug cable indicates that the problem is not electrical.
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  16. #16
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    All sorted. The small diaphragm was torn.
    New diaphragms fitted, plus a bunch of o-rings, should be like a new one.
    Thank you all for your help.

  17. #17
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    Should be smiling and have another trouble free 150,000kms or so.

    Where did you get the kit? $?
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  18. #18
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    Supplied and fitted by Rolly Pym. I simply dropped off the part then picked it up and refitted it.
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