Lower engine mount bushing replacement. Can it be done with mount in car?
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Thread: Lower engine mount bushing replacement. Can it be done with mount in car?

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    UNM
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    Default Lower engine mount bushing replacement. Can it be done with mount in car?

    I need to replace the bushing in the lower engine mount of my 206GTi. This is the same part in most 206's and I think a fair few other peugeot/citroen models.

    Anyone know if it can be done with the mount in car? Would save a lot of suspension disassembly.

    I have successfully pressed bearing out in the past with a couple of suitable sized sockets and some threaded metal rod, but as the O.D of the bushing is 70mm, I am struggling to find any suitable sized items to attach to a piece of threaded rod.


    Anyone ever had success doing this, or do I just accept I need to put aside a day to take the suspension and driveshafts apart?

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    Mate, I have the same prob with my 205, but I've only had the car a week so I don't have a clue!
    So far I've found a replacement bushing. But as far as getting the old bushing out whilst still in the car, I dunno...
    I really don't want to pull the motor, and I'm guessing you don't either!

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    It depends how much time you have. Doing it the right way might take a day. Doing it the way you want to, oh well, it's going to be a Guiness book record either way 'cos you're probably going to be the first.

    You do know that you can take the mount assembly out without dismantling the suspension, etc, right?

    And here's a hint. If you really want to do it in the car, I would destroy the old mount and dremel a cut in the outer rim of the old mount, then use this rim to push the new one in with suitably large piece of flat (and strong) steel with a hole in the middle. Don't even think of trying to pull the new mount in by its centre (but I have a suspicion you knew that).

    Of course "dremel a cut" is easier said than done. Leave it to your imagination how this would work out.
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    Motor doesn't have to come out but mount housing definitely does!
    Remove steering arm ball joint (undo nut then hit the end of steering arm with hammer to jar the taper pin out).
    Take out pinch bolt at bottom of strut, then use crow bar to remove lower arm from strut.
    Before you do all this loosen hub nut with car on the ground with wheel on.
    Take off hub nut, you can then pull the strut assembly outwards so that you can remove the driveshaft end from the hub.
    You then have to take out two bolts that hold the centre bearing in the driveshaft to the housing , once these are removed you can slide out the driveshaft, don't forget to drain the oil from the gearbox first. Remove the engine mount housing and use a hack saw to get the old bush out, cut out the rubber then cut through the outer ring so that it collapses slightly.
    You can put the new bush in by using a vice, you don't need to push it in all together, just move it around in the vice keeping it fairly straight and you will get it in.
    This will all take a bit over an hour if you know what you are doing, could be a day for a first timer and you will need some tools that you wont have already.


    Quote Originally Posted by EvilElmo View Post
    Mate, I have the same prob with my 205, but I've only had the car a week so I don't have a clue!
    So far I've found a replacement bushing. But as far as getting the old bushing out whilst still in the car, I dunno...
    I really don't want to pull the motor, and I'm guessing you don't either!

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    UNM
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post

    You do know that you can take the mount assembly out without dismantling the suspension, etc, right?
    Not sure how exactly you would do this. When I replaced the clutch, that mount only came off over the drive shaft.

    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Motor doesn't have to come out but mount housing definitely does!
    Remove ...
    <snip, snip>
    Remove the engine mount housing and use a hack saw to get the old bush out, cut out the rubber then cut through the outer ring so that it collapses slightly.
    You can put the new bush in by using a vice, you don't need to push it in all together, just move it around in the vice keeping it fairly straight and you will get it in.
    This will all take a bit over an hour if you know what you are doing, could be a day for a first timer and you will need some tools that you wont have already.
    Thanks for that. Makes perfect sense given that I pulled the same parts off about a year ago. Pulling apart the suspension was a real PITA, just trying to get the right angles to remove that lower ball joint with a long pry bar (I used a 1.5m star picket, some chain and a couple clamps)

    Kinda confirms what I suspected that this is harder than I would like, but quite manageable given enough time.

    I do have access to a heavy duty hydraulic press at a neighbours place, will probably be a lot easier than a vice. Bushing is on order.


    I assume new cv joint boots are easy to do while it is all apart? Might be worth doing as a preventative measure given the amount of work and that one of them is a cheap stretch boot that doesn't fit well

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    If it is a S1/2 or Si driveshaft you will need to use a stretchy boot or a proper tool to stretch the boot over as the CV joints can't be removed. S3 or 405, 306 etc have removable CV joints so this is easy.
    Use a crow bar as lever,a bit more weight, lever the complete arm downwards. Si is more difficult than GTi as the ARB gives added resistance. Tap the upright with a hammer while maintaining force on the control arm.

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM View Post
    Not sure how exactly you would do this. When I replaced the clutch, that mount only came off over the drive shaft.



    Thanks for that. Makes perfect sense given that I pulled the same parts off about a year ago. Pulling apart the suspension was a real PITA, just trying to get the right angles to remove that lower ball joint with a long pry bar (I used a 1.5m star picket, some chain and a couple clamps)

    Kinda confirms what I suspected that this is harder than I would like, but quite manageable given enough time.

    I do have access to a heavy duty hydraulic press at a neighbours place, will probably be a lot easier than a vice. Bushing is on order.


    I assume new cv joint boots are easy to do while it is all apart? Might be worth doing as a preventative measure given the amount of work and that one of them is a cheap stretch boot that doesn't fit well

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM View Post
    Not sure how exactly you would do this. When I replaced the clutch, that mount only came off over the drive shaft.

    [...]
    What I meant was you only need to take out the lower balljoint as Graham explained, not pull apart the whole suspension.

    To take out the lower balljoint, you don't need a big crowbar. Just use an Allen 7mm socket. It goes in on the flats, and if you turn it on the tips, it will spread the slit enough for the balljoint to come out.

    If you don't use a socket but a right angle Allen, you will struggle to get it dead on the tips, and you'll have a hard time spreading the strut end. You need the leverage and the precision a long handle in the socket affords you.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 24th January 2016 at 03:23 PM.
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    Good idea but for an Si you will still need some sort of lever as the lower control arm includes the ARB.
    Would be worthwhile loosening the top strut mounting bolts to make it easier to move about.


    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    What I meat was you only need to take out the lower balljoint as Graham explained, not pull apart the whole suspension.

    To take out the lower balljoint, you don't need a big crowbar. Just use an Allen 7mm socket. It goes in on the flats, and if you turn it on the tips, it will spread the slit enough for the balljoint to come out.

    If you don't use a socket but a right angle Allen, you will struggle to get it dead on the tips, and you'll have a hard time spreading the strut end. You need the leverage and the precision a long handle in the socket affords you.

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    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Anyway since you already have done your clutch you know how bs putting that suspension arm back in is. Do not forget proper loctite use around the engine mount bracket bolts. This is why i advised checking the mount when you did your clutch back when unless it just stuffed up in between this time.

    As for the CV boots - yeah they should be straightforward, though on your 206 i can't imagine them being bad? But DIY for me took bloody ages.

    Be sure to grab yourself an intermediate shaft bearing as yours might be old. Give it a spin and see how dry it sounds if it is dry replace it. Mine was still in good condition. The part is $10-20 from an SKF dealer but pressing it out is the annoying bit. Oxy torch and or press is needed for this. [i believe the SKF pn is 6006-2RS1 but verify it]

    Don't forget to check the little lower engine mount fork bush as well, i think they sell the big bush with the little one? I cant remember anymore, but i just replaced everything.


    It will be easily less than a day job for you.
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Good idea but for an Si you will still need some sort of lever as the lower control arm includes the ARB.
    Would be worthwhile loosening the top strut mounting bolts to make it easier to move about.
    True, for an Si there is this minor complication. Honestly, I would slacken the torsion bar bush clamps and drop the bar.

    The reason I say this is that I have had a bad experience with the top strut bolts. I sheared one clean off when doing up the nut. It was a brand new one most likely aftermarket, but still unpleasant. Maybe and original Pug mount even 20+ years old would not have the same problem. And no, I didn't use excessive force. I tend to avoid doing/undoing those bolts now if I don't really have to.
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    The ARB mounts are very hard to get to, avoid touching these if not necessary!

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    UNM
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    If it is a S1/2 or Si driveshaft you will need to use a stretchy boot or a proper tool to stretch the boot over as the CV joints can't be removed. S3 or 405, 306 etc have removable CV joints so this is easy.
    It's a 2003 GTi. Guessing that would be a S1/2.

    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    What I meat was you only need to take out the lower balljoint as Graham explained, not pull apart the whole suspension.
    Thanks for clarifying. I was a tad confused. Will try the 7mm hex key tip.
    Quote Originally Posted by lion5 View Post

    It will be easily less than a day job for you.
    Yeah, as long as I have all necessary parts. That was the reason the lower bush wasn't replaced last time everything was apart. I reckoned it wasn't bad enough to require replacement then, but now I need to get a roadworthy. Bush is on order for quite a bit less than EAI charge as I can plan this piece of maintenance. Clutch was a rather urgent repair.
    Last edited by UNM; 24th January 2016 at 01:23 PM.

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    Sorry, thinking about the 205, should have removable CV joints.
    The hex key may not work or be needed on the 206 if it has a taper pin like a 405?

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM View Post
    It's a 2003 GTi. Guessing that would be a S1/2.



    Thanks for clarifying. I was a tad confused. Will try the 7mm hex key tip.


    Yeah, as long as I have all necessary parts. That was the reason the lower bush wasn't replaced last time everything was apart. I reckoned it wasn't bad enough to require replacement then, but now I need to get a roadworthy. Bush is on order for quite a bit less than EAI charge as I can plan this piece of maintenance. Clutch was a rather urgent repair.

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    I recall when I pulled the driveshaft to do the clutch that the pin slid out easily part way until the groove came in line with the socket, at which point it locked solid.
    Only way to get it out was to use some way to prevent the chain used around the pry bar from slipping so we could exert pressure at just the right angle to get it to slide straight. Makes more sense if you actually have one in front of you, but the issue is that force needs to be applied at the correct angle to make parts slide easily. Will find out in a week how easy it all is.


    Drivers side CV joint boot has a small cut in it where the animal who installed it last year (not me) overtightened the clic clamp. Should still pass roadworthy, but this is VIC...

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    Wobble the strut in and out while levering.

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM View Post
    I recall when I pulled the driveshaft to do the clutch that the pin slid out easily part way until the groove came in line with the socket, at which point it locked solid.
    Only way to get it out was to use some way to prevent the chain used around the pry bar from slipping so we could exert pressure at just the right angle to get it to slide straight. Makes more sense if you actually have one in front of you, but the issue is that force needs to be applied at the correct angle to make parts slide easily. Will find out in a week how easy it all is.


    Drivers side CV joint boot has a small cut in it where the animal who installed it last year (not me) overtightened the clic clamp. Should still pass roadworthy, but this is VIC...

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    I had a crawl under the car today and looked at the mount. I am convinced it COULD be done with the mount in the car, as logn as a suitable circular support was available to receive the old bushing.


    Now I don't actually have such an item, but...

    If I happened to have a scrap mount, I would cut off everything except the bush and surrounding, press out the old bushing to just leave a suitable sized ring of aluminium, use a sanding wheel to take a smidge off the inner surface and then use that as a receiver for the old bushing, with a threaded stud and wide/thick washers as the necessary force to drive a new bushing in and the old one out.

    Almost worth trying just to see if it works.

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    Why bother when it is not hard to remove the mount?

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM View Post
    I had a crawl under the car today and looked at the mount. I am convinced it COULD be done with the mount in the car, as logn as a suitable circular support was available to receive the old bushing.


    Now I don't actually have such an item, but...

    If I happened to have a scrap mount, I would cut off everything except the bush and surrounding, press out the old bushing to just leave a suitable sized ring of aluminium, use a sanding wheel to take a smidge off the inner surface and then use that as a receiver for the old bushing, with a threaded stud and wide/thick washers as the necessary force to drive a new bushing in and the old one out.

    Almost worth trying just to see if it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Why bother when it is not hard to remove the mount?
    Actually a 206 is a rotten job to remove the shaft. You need to remove or at least lower the k frame (not to bad on a hoist but horrible on the ground), because the lower arms simply don't go down enough to remove them from the balljoint locators in the bottom of the hubs. I have been able to do the bottom bush in a car but it was a 1.6. I haven't attempted a 2 liter.
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    OK, still thinking of 205s!

    Quote Originally Posted by cav91 View Post
    Actually a 206 is a rotten job to remove the shaft. You need to remove or at least lower the k frame (not to bad on a hoist but horrible on the ground), because the lower arms simply don't go down enough to remove them from the balljoint locators in the bottom of the hubs. I have been able to do the bottom bush in a car but it was a 1.6. I haven't attempted a 2 liter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cav91 View Post
    Actually a 206 is a rotten job to remove the shaft. You need to remove or at least lower the k frame (not to bad on a hoist but horrible on the ground), because the lower arms simply don't go down enough to remove them from the balljoint locators in the bottom of the hubs.

    You can get the lower arm down far enough. I have done it before.

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    I have once too but it damaged the bushes and to be honest it's easier to drop the k frame. Or alternatively jack up the shocker
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    You can buy "press-pull" kits with threaded high tensile rod and sized stepped discs / cylinders. This can ease in-situ replacement. To use such an item once is probably not fiscally sound, but maybe one can be borrowed?

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    Can you get a press attachment for a Porta Power?

    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    You can buy "press-pull" kits with threaded high tensile rod and sized stepped discs / cylinders. This can ease in-situ replacement. To use such an item once is probably not fiscally sound, but maybe one can be borrowed?

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    I had a 1.5m long pole which i use to break my driveshaft nuts and still couldn't press pull the lower engine mount when I did try out of curiosity. I needed my 12T hydraulic press.

    So there are two conclusions: 1. they are pure gimmicks, or 2. i'm a little weakling. And I'm a tank who no one would want to mess with.
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    If you're careful, you can slit the outer steel shell of the old engine mount with a hacksaw. Try not to damage the aluminium housing as the blade passes through. The engine mount will then fall out easily, as the perimeter is 1mm less. To get the new mount in, you'll need to make a press arrangement with some M10 studded rod and some flat plate, etc.
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