505 GTI flywheel bolt tension?
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Thread: 505 GTI flywheel bolt tension?

  1. #1
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    Default 505 GTI flywheel bolt tension?

    Does anyone know what tension the flywheel bolts need to be done at on a GTI 505 please?

    I'm about to go for a journey to do a motorectomy on my white 505 that broke a timing belt some time last year.
    I managed to get a replacement engine which is a series 1 auto going into a series 2 manual.
    So I have to swap the flywheel and the manifolds.
    I think I have all the requirements such as new timing belt and seals, gaskets for the manifolds and flange gasket, oil filter and oil, loctite, squillions of spanners, hmmm, must get some coolant too.
    I'll do some pics when she's running, thanks again to Alistair.
    Plus Kaiser, if you see this, do you still want those seats? Send me a PM if so. I'll ring Colin to check as well.
    Hoping to be heading through Queanbeyan on Friday 30th Jan.

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Luthier, I know you've done heaps of work on 504s and 505s, so please forgive my mentioning it, but are you familiar with these bolts ? If they are the same as 504 and 505 series 1 flywheel bolts, I'd make sure you have a special socket ground down to fit em. These bolts have a really low profile head, and a normal socket will often slip off unless you are really careful. I had a special socket I'd ground the end off slightly so that the inside taper no longer existed.
    I seem to remember that the 504 and 505 bolts are 17 mm, but who knows with the GTI ? Maybe just take an angle grinder and a few old sockets ? (If there is anywhere there to plug it in)

    At a total guess, I'd say the torque would be 50 ft/lbs. And with Loctite, you should be right.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    Luthier, I know you've done heaps of work on 504s and 505s, so please forgive my mentioning it, but are you familiar with these bolts ? If they are the same as 504 and 505 series 1 flywheel bolts, I'd make sure you have a special socket ground down to fit em. These bolts have a really low profile head, and a normal socket will often slip off unless you are really careful. I had a special socket I'd ground the end off slightly so that the inside taper no longer existed.
    I seem to remember that the 504 and 505 bolts are 17 mm, but who knows with the GTI ? Maybe just take an angle grinder and a few old sockets ? (If there is anywhere there to plug it in)

    At a total guess, I'd say the torque would be 50 ft/lbs. And with Loctite, you should be right.
    And use a hex socket.

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    [QUOTE=luthier;1413528]Does anyone know what tension the flywheel bolts need to be done at on a GTI 505 please?


    48 ft/lb according to Mr Haynes

    I am gunna get another 403 on the road........one day

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    Thankyou gentlemen.

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    The white 505 didn't make it home after the motor-ectomy. Sadly there was a serious headgasket issue which shortened it's journey till I can return with a trailer to recover it. That was a lot of work not to get home with it. 3 days out of my life!
    The flywheel bolts were pretty easy to work with, no problems with ordinary sockets and tension wrench.

    Interesting looking at the engine which failed first time. It was a failed timing belt.
    However when I took off the cover I found the belt still in one piece under full tension but with all the teeth in contact with the engine sprocket chewed off because the camshaft had seized. I cut the belt off to check and the camshaft was the only thing not spinning.
    I spose that could have been caused by a number of things and maybe taking off the rocker box would have revealed the cause but instead of finding out I hoiked the damn lump into the bucket of a backhoe and unceremoniously dumped it in a pile of scrapmetal.
    Suffice to say that had I bothered to renew that timing belt before I drove home last year, the result would have been the same as I would have been unlikely to remove the rocker cover at that point.

    Next step will be another motor-ectomy once I land the elusive white 505 at my place.
    I have another engine and box which will be the new heart.
    This time however I want to cover all bases before going to all that work.
    I'm considering replacing the headgasket before it goes into service and before any problems can occur.
    Might have to get a Haynes manual and a new set of headbolts for that.
    I'll be fitting a new clutch and replacing all engine and gearbox seals too.
    This will also be accompanied by a paint job, though it will not be a fullon windows out stripdown, just a careful maskoff kinda respray.
    So a partial but still fairly practical refresh job.
    It's really in good straight condition with nice interior and a good ride so well worth the effort.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    Interesting looking at the engine which failed first time. It was a failed timing belt.
    However when I took off the cover I found the belt still in one piece under full tension but with all the teeth in contact with the engine sprocket chewed off because the camshaft had seized..
    This is chicken/egg order thing and I wouldn't be too quick to name the chicken as the first.
    What you found is the perfectly normal scenario for a busted cam belt. Cam belt looks fine until you remove it and find half a dozen teeth missing at the crank.

    Without knowing about your engines head oil starvation issues, I'd suggest the order of things is...
    1. teeth chew off cam belt at crank.
    2 crank continues to turn with momentum from flywheel/roadwheel, but cam stops instantly.
    3 piston smashes into a valve bending valve and locking the cam against the piston.

    Jo

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    Quite possible Jo, likely even. Just never seen it happen that way in my limited exposure to cambelts breaking. It'd be nice if my experience there remains static.
    I've broken one on a 406[from a wallaby tail that got caught in it] and seen another broken belt with lots of damage. That's enough disaster for one lifetime.

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    Hi

    Not long ago, I had similar thing happen to two of my 505 STi's, in that the teeth stripped of on the belts, fortunately on both occasions the cars were almost stationary when it happened and no damage was done to the valves or pistons. Since these belts were well under the normal mileage when you would replace them, I asked around to see if I could get any answers, a highly qualified and experienced engineer who works on top end vehicles said that all alloy engines should have their cam belts retensioned every twenty thousand kilometers.
    Regards
    Neil
    jo proffi likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TassieExec View Post
    ......Since these belts were well under the normal mileage when you would replace them......
    Neil
    Were they also under age??
    Jo

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TassieExec View Post
    Hi

    Not long ago, I had similar thing happen to two of my 505 STi's, in that the teeth stripped of on the belts, fortunately on both occasions the cars were almost stationary when it happened and no damage was done to the valves or pistons. Since these belts were well under the normal mileage when you would replace them, I asked around to see if I could get any answers, a highly qualified and experienced engineer who works on top end vehicles said that all alloy engines should have their cam belts retensioned every twenty thousand kilometers.
    Regards
    Neil
    A sound argument for automically tensioned cam belts Or better still (duplex) chain drive.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! TassieExec's Avatar
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    Yes, both were under the age of replacement, although one was closer than the other, I probably should have said he is a mechanical engineer who works on those cars professionally
    Regards
    Neil

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