504 cylinder head installation
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Thread: 504 cylinder head installation

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 504 cylinder head installation

    Hi All, Is there a special Peugeot tool to keep the head correctly located while installing the pushrods, rocker gear and so on? I have cut down a couple of old head bolts, but the gasket and head still slide down about a millimetre or so. I would really like it to be perfectly centred. Any tips or tricks would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Yep that's the go, cut off the head and cut some slots in the end with an angle grinder and 3mm disk.

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    ^What he says.

    Also use Hylomar. I believe Robmac always uses it. The sealant that is already on head gaskets just doesn't do the job well.

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    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    I always use a very thin coat of Hylomar as well. Good stuff.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Chisholm View Post
    I always use a very thin coat of Hylomar as well. Good stuff.
    Spread it on toast too
    JohnW likes this.

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    I will face the same challenge soon! Any tips would be appreciated as well. I would also be dead grateful if anybody has an idea on how best to replace the copper union for the heater hoses at the back end of the cylinder head. The smaller hose union has corroded away. Trying to find a replacement, but some have mentioned it is possible to have a stainless steel one made up. Cant find anybody willing to do this though! Any ideas? Thanks
    Mark

    1977 504 GL
    1985 504 GR

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Plenty of threads on XN engine cylinder head replacements on AF.

    The tee-piece/ heater/ carby heat union is simply press fit into the head. They used to available as a spare part. Just grab the old with a pair of vice grips and twist and pull to remove. That is if it's not too corroded.

    If it very corroded a either try a slide hammer up the middle or cut with a hacksaw blade and and grab with needle nose pliers to pull it out once the tube in the head is split.

    If you can't get a new fitting, brass barbs are available . If I remember, the hole in the head is correct size for a 3/8 gas thread tap.

    So tap the hole and fit 3/8 gas to 16mm hose barb. Teflon tape makes a good seal.

    You need to make up something for the carby tee off, but most places that stock the brass barb, will have the parts to make up a 16mm x 16mm tee with a 10 mm branch.

    Best of luck.
    Last edited by robmac; 21st January 2016 at 04:04 PM.

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    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    As per Robmac's reply above. Check the size and consult with a 'Nut and Bolt' specialist. NPT and BSPT are very common industrial sizes/types but if you can the parallel types have an O-ring seal with the good chance of a back up metal seal. Good for 5-6000 PSI, how many lifetime is that at 4 PSI?
    Brendan.

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    Awesome thanks. I will tackle the hose union as soon as head is back from its cleanup. Thanks for the advice! I met a Peugeot collecter who cursed this little part as he said it had cost him a motor before.
    Mark

    1977 504 GL
    1985 504 GR

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    The last time I had my cylinder head off, I put it into a machine shop to get a valve grind. They put a thread in that hole and screwed in a hose fitting. It was surprisingly cheap....great value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Yep that's the go, cut off the head and cut some slots in the end with an angle grinder and 3mm disk.
    i'm going to do this job soon.
    what's the purpose of cutting the slots?

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    He's talking about the bolt collecting crap from the thread in those slots. I use one with a head, cut vertical slots in the thread, and screw it into every block head bolt hole. It acts like a thread-cutting tap and cleans the thread out. I think the correct term is a "chaser". Taps are probably too sharp and harsh for that job. Though some people use them, others cringe at the thought of what they do to the block thread. And you really don't want weak block threads......particularly in that critical rear thread on the exhaust side of an old 504 block..

    In fact I recommend putting a helicoil in that one, just as insurance. 504s are not getting any younger and I've seen too many of that particular bolt-hole thread weaken and give way. Trust me on this.....they may look ok, but when you tighten the bolt, it keeps going around. Then you have to take it all apart, insert a helicoil and get a new head gasket.

    Then get two more head bolts, cut the hexagonal heads off, (don't bother to cut slots, since you have already cleaned out the threads with the other one), screw them into the block a few turns, and slide firstly the head gasket, then the head down over them to centre/align it on the block. Then the tappet gear and then insert the head bolts.


    PS....With the rear block bolt-hole, there is a slight problem with fitting helicoils in 504 blocks that are still in the car. As it is a so far back, and as it is a slant engine, it is difficult to get a drill in there to enlarge the hole prior to tapping the thread for the helicoil.

    Many people get a mobile professional to come around and do the job, or else remove the whole engine.
    Last edited by Beano; 2nd May 2016 at 05:56 PM.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indabundu View Post
    I will face the same challenge soon! Any tips would be appreciated as well. I would also be dead grateful if anybody has an idea on how best to replace the copper union for the heater hoses at the back end of the cylinder head. The smaller hose union has corroded away. Trying to find a replacement, but some have mentioned it is possible to have a stainless steel one made up. Cant find anybody willing to do this though! Any ideas? Thanks
    No need to have anything made up. Pull out the old fitting from the head . The hole remaining in the head will take 3/8 gas thread tap
    nicely.

    Then all you need, is to buy 3/8 gas to 16mm brass OR S/S hose barb from a fitting supplier. To connect the carby heat hose, just buy a 16mmx 16 mm to 10 mm branch hose tee and cut it into the hose.

    Job done, with off the shelf fittings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post


    Then get two more head bolts, cut the hexagonal heads off, (don't bother to cut slots, since you have already cleaned out the threads with the other one), screw them into the block a few turns, and slide firstly the head gasket, then the head down over them to centre/align it on the block. Then the tappet gear and then insert the head bolts.


    .
    how do you unscrew those 2 bolts after the head is in place? are they long enough to grab them?

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    how do you unscrew those 2 bolts after the head is in place?
    With the slots in the studs.

    are they long enough to grab them?
    Not usually, but a pair of needle nose pliers normally does the trick.

    FWIW - Mk 2 versions of my "head retaining studs" were made by grinding the hex head down to the same diameter as the bolt shank, easy to do on a decent bench grinder. Then I cut the slots in the studs. Being a bit longer than the Mk1 version, they are much easier to remove with the head in place.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    In the old days I think I used cut down 403 head bolts which are longer and, therefore, protrude enough to make removal easy.

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    And/or don't screw them in more than about 3 turns....no need to.

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    Default 504 head bolts/alignment

    Have seen another really schmick solution to this problem, a variant of the short, slotted bolt.

    Needs a lathe

    Make short bolt with right thread

    Drill centre

    Then cross drill short of tip at right angles

    Then cut slot so that it is slightly out of register with holes, leaving an end a bit like the old female part of a crank handle socket

    Make tee bar with cross piece ( like mini 404 crank handle ) to screw in and lift out

    Bit of extra effort, but makes it easier to retrieve the shortened bolts

    Suspect that this is the tool peugeot made for the job, or something like it

    Andrew




    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    And/or don't screw them in more than about 3 turns....no need to.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    If one had a lathe they could replicate the genuine tool. The long bolt has a left hand thread and unscrews the short bolt as it is screwed into it.

    504 cylinder head installation-img_1337.jpg

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    Simply buy a couple of longer bolts and decapitate then-long time since I have done one but I think in the past I have made up a couple of plates with holes -placed one on fr & rear exhaust manifold studs-ie. the plates are higher than the block preventing side slip of gasket & head.

    Probably forty years ago I heard of the virtues of Hyomar and use in Rollers.I was going to use the next morning on my bobcat which had an all alloy Onan engine.

    In speaking to an old mate [who was a N.R.M.A. engineer] I mentioned the Hylomar.He informed me that it was not suitable for aluminium .

    So maybe you would like to check if that fact still applies to be on the safe side.

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    When I put the head back on mine I made up a similar tool from longer M12 x 1.5 bolts that had a larger shank diameter than the original head bolts . These reduced the movement of the head . Any good bolt place should be able to supply just make sure of the length you need . You need to put the slots in to allow you to take the bolt out .

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    That's an even nicer way!

    A

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    Try this stuff. I think it's better than Hylomar. The AC Delco product doesn't have the sexy background story involving Rolls Royce, it's only a GM product, but it works. You won't need the bolts to hold the gasket in place because this sealant holds on like you won't believe. But place the gasket exactly where you want it first time, because I recon you'll damage the gasket trying to reposition it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonch504 View Post
    But place the gasket exactly where you want it first time, because I recon you'll damage the gasket trying to reposition it.
    that's the problem to begin with.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonch504 View Post
    Try this stuff. I think it's better than Hylomar. The AC Delco product doesn't have the sexy background story involving Rolls Royce, it's only a GM product, but it works. You won't need the bolts to hold the gasket in place because this sealant holds on like you won't believe. But place the gasket exactly where you want it first time, because I recon you'll damage the gasket trying to reposition it.
    It's a 3M product in actual fact.

    http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/2...d-ec776-sr.pdf

    And it's touted as a extremely tenacious adhesive, it's primary application it seems.

    I'm not sure if it's particularly appropriate for aluminium cylinder heads. Nor composite head gaskets.

    Personally I'll stick (pun intended) with hylomar, which has served me well over many engine repairs.

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