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Thread: Can of worms?

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Dano's Avatar
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    Default Can of worms?

    Just thinking out aloud.
    What oil should I use in a 404 engine rebuild?
    Bearing in mind, that it possibly won't be fired up for another 6-7 months. However during that time, it will be wound over by hand regularly.

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    Cheers,

    Dano

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I've always used a Semi Syth. And run in on a straight mineral oil. Penrite et al have a good range.
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Don't use regular oil after a rebuild unless the rings and bore are not touched.

    Use running oil after a rebuild.
    It has less friction modifiers and allows the rings to bed in to the bores during the running in period.

    The engine should run it for a certain time, can't remember but might be 100km or something low, then change to a regular oil full of friction modifyers.

    Jo

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default

    I always found this really interesting:

    Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    cjl likes this.
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Dano's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks Shane,

    Yep it's interesting. I'll have to re-read it to absorb and convince myself.

    Cheers

    Dano

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    Default

    I would tend to follow Peugeot's own recommendations from the period regarding running in procedure. As for oil, I will face the same question in a couple of years when my Coupé Injection engine is installed in the soon-to-be restored shell.
    robmac likes this.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I always found this really interesting:

    Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    That is what I have been doing since my first new car (ended with very strong engine compared to others of the same make) and all my race go kart engines way back when.
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I'm 100% with you on this. Use a standard , mineral, non friction modified oil to run in.

    Otherwise you stand to have ring bedding issues.

    As to many and varied theories as to "running in". I follow Mr Peugeot recommendations and drive gently with occasional sessions of higher speeds. Don't let the engine labor.

    Soon enough you you will "feel" when the engine wants to rev harder - just go with it.

    I've found mahl pistons and liner can take a while to bed and can blow smoke for quite a while - eventually they seem to bed in.

    I pull the head down again after the engine has run a 100 ks or so. Usually the next day when stone cold. If you have lubed the head bolts well you don't need to loosen off.

    Pull the head down again at 1000KM, set the tappets, change the oil and filter and if the engine has freed up and not burning any oil / blowing smoke you can change to a semi syth.

    If the engine is still tight or puffing smoke use another sump of non friction modified mineral oil. This time for 2000-3000 km.

    I've done several XN engines this way, and with the exception of one dick owner running the oil too low, have never had any issues.

    Did I remind you check the oil level regularly and often for first 1000 km ?

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Don't let the engine labor.
    Spot on and applies to even run in engines. I have seen two engines ruined prematurely by labouring, pinging noise from bottom end at low revs can be the tell tale result.

    Vary the rev range and load the engine, but dont labour it is how I was taught
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Dano's Avatar
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    All good advice gentlemen,

    Since I'm using a genuine Peugeot set of NOS piston and sleeves, I'll stick with the tried and tested methods suggested and ones I've used previously. '

    Shane that doesn't mean your advice was incorrect, its just the set (pistons) are old school and I'll stick with what I know.

    Cheers,

    Dano

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    In regards to the original question of which oil...
    Penrite Oil - A Better Class Of Oil

    Jo

  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I always found this really interesting:

    Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    how could you trust someone who formats a website like that??

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    how could you trust someone who formats a website like that??
    Because everything he says makes sense. Have you ever noticed hire car and demonstrators always seem to go a LOT better than all the other cars. It will be because they were driven HARD when they were brand new. My CX turbo was a demonstrator when new... CNAN numberplates. It would have been flogged to death my everyone that stepped into the drivers seat. Fast forward 31 years and she still doesn't burn a drip of oil, still has never had the head off .... and still goes quite well.

    Being gentle on a freshly build motor makes no sense to me

    seeya
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Being gentle on any motor makes no sense to me

    seeya
    Shane L.

    There, fixed for you.

    Jo

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Default

    Hi, Have some more worms. The materials in the Pug are steel liners with chrome faced rings. The perfect circle installation instructions include running the engine up to full speed at full throttle several times - There is a balancing act - the rings need full load to bed in with a running in oil, but the bearings need the opposite. The Pug handbook instructions produce good results and we've run several motors to the next overhaul with 180,000 - 250,000 miles following it.

    www.avweb.com/news/maint/184932-1.html




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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    That reminds me: in the KF engines, there is a washer of about 1 mm thickness that goes under the richness lever during break-in. It's left there for 1000 km, at which point it is supposed to be removed at the first service. Many 404 KF cars never had this removed! Mine all have (one was done by me, when the car was 13 years old!), but more importantly, when my KF2 engine is rebuilt I must remember to put this washer in temporarily.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
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