504 Purchase in Kenya - What to look for?
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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    Default 504 Purchase in Kenya - What to look for?

    I am seriously considering purchasing a 504 here in Kenya, as I plan to travel a bit through Africa. Peugeot 504s were manufactured here till 2006 so there are plenty around. Most are petrols, but I have an interest in one diesel. Can anyone tell me what general and specific things I should look out for on a 504 when purchasing? I have a preference for diesel, but an open to persuasion?

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    Someone here suggested the suspension bushes wore out quickly on 504s, but that may have something to do with the shocking condition of the roads here. What areas rusted first on the bodywork of a 504? I don't see any rust on the ones driving around here, probably because Nairobi is inland.
    Anything else you want to add is much appreciated. I have owned a 405 SRDT but not a 504.
    Shane
    Shane

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Phew. We lived on the coast at Malindi for two years and the rust on some Kenyan cars is beyond description. They are very good at disguising rust, welding in biscuit tin thickness steel to replace floors and all the devious things you could imagine with bog and paint. You could get two cars joined and sold as one quite easily.

    My key points would be (a) history of ownership/servicing (not impossible to expect), (b)proof that the seller owns the vehicle and (c) a good magnet to test the bog thickness. I reckon you could probably find quite a good one though.

    I reckon a 504 wagon would be close to the ideal vehicle. In Mauritania I have seen 504 and 404 models in truly amazing places. Of late, maybe true for Kenya too, Mercedes-Benzes have been coming in - strong and reliable but I'd suspect much harder to fix than a 504 in the backblocks.

    The other workhorse is the unspeakable Toyota Lite-Stout, complete with beam axles. Horrible. But they do go....

    Be interesting to hear what you find. Where in Kenya are you?

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    what, no new ones?

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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    I am in Nairobi. There is a good looking 2002 model that looks a bit expensive, but the owner says it is in mint condition, no accidents, etc. so I will enquire about it. I am only interested in the 504 because there are so many around and this is perhaps my only chance to own one, as I am content with a couple of Citroens at home in Oz.
    http://www.kebuysell.com/Peugeot+504-78593.html

    Are there any other pitfalls to look for, mechanically or suspension wise?
    Shane

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    Hi Shane,
    In the 80s 90s,I used to do overland trips,London- Nairobi,Nairobi- Cairo, Nairobi -Cape town. Good choice of car, for that part of the world. I still drive a 504 estate, and Sedan,Both 2L petrol. The Affs stuck, with the petrols for simplicity,I would to! Apart from normal wear and tear like any car, Check that it's been running coolant, not bore water,otherwise you could have probs.Sticking Park brake cables, on the sedans with discs.Not sure if the Kenyan made cars, were the poverty pack, with rear drums? South Africa,And Namibia, didn,t get excited about the 404s, 504s like the rest of Africa(Stupid Bastards!) If you make it to West Africa(don,t know how nowadays, except through Angola?) You'll be laughing for parts, Likewise Egypt. Hakuna Matata. Happy Travels Andy
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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    Thanks Andy, will check these out.
    Shane

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    I just had a look at the pic, looks good! If it's a Kenyan made it might have LSD sticker on back! How many Km s? I had a 505, with same eng running gear, parked it up at 504,000 km, only cauce I smaked 3 roos! Apart from that it was still going strong! One other thought, if it,s a 4 speed, check for oil leak on g/box selector shaft!

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    if you get it, grab a set of points, condenser, and possibly coil ,also a spare fan belt, a convoluted multi purpose radiator hose.A inline fuelfilter, If it doesn.t have one! With these simple precautions,it should be smooth sailing? No computers to go wrong! Good Luck
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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    Andy, it's a 5 speed, 1850cc (I assume injected, but will ask), and the A/C is still working. But he will need to come down a fair bit from his USD $4800 price tag. He has had it on the market since Dec. 2014, so he might be willing to move.
    Shane

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    Should be 1796 cc if it's a Peugeot 504 engine, also, not injected.
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    I thought it should not be 1850, but that's what the owner suggested, but I will check it for myself. Wikipedia (it may not be totally accurate) suggests fuel injection was available as an option. I will check this too. This is a 2002 year model, so maybe some things changed over time? If it is an 1800cc engine, I wonder if it has enough power to drive the wheels and the A/C at the same time.... up hill?!
    Shane

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    After flirting with various Germans, I recently completed a long held wish for a 504 of my own. I grew up with family that owned a 404 pickup and a 504 Wagon. They ran forever and I recently purchased not 1, but 2 504 sedans. I know have a Brown 77 GL with 2.0 peteol, disc brakes all round and independant rear suspension. Bought it in a fairly sad state with little to no history and drove it home over 450km without a hitch. My other one is an SA spec 1985 GR with an 1800 motor, rear drum brakes and live rear axle. Only question is which to drive and which to rstore first! GR is a 1 owner car with original invoice and partial service history. These cars have a super reputation for comfort, reliability and ease of maintenance down here. Whatever you decide, having owned old mercs i can safely say there is little as comfortable as a well looked after 504! Good luck and enjoy!

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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    Thanks for your comments Tadpole. Andy, you must have done some pretty adventurous travelling from Nairobi to London and down to SA? That's amazing.

    I just had a look at this 504 and now I am thinking on what John said about some devious shop work! I couldn't find a date stamped on it anywhere. The little aluminium compliance plate on the drivers side (right) fender under the bonnet did not seem to have a date on it, and I couldn't see it stamped anywhere else, and the owner did not seem to know either. So does anyone know where it should be located? I should have taken down the VIN to check somewhere online? It only has 137,000 k's on the clock but looks for all the world as if it's done more than this.

    A/C is working, just, but working (probably low on gas). But this is very secondary.

    It has been repainted for sure. He says it just had some sun damage, and that is why is it was repainted. But I am thinking a 2002 year model should not have needed a repaint. My 405 still has a fantastic original paint job and it's a 1996 model. It does not seem to have much rust, but a couple of paint bubbles just in front of the drivers side door low on the front mudguard. Door under-sills seem good. The clutch pedal has some free-play before disengaging, but otherwise feels OK. It has rear drum brakes and a single piece rear axle with coil springs (do you call that a live rear axle?). When he took me for a spin it the suspension did not feel as soft as I would expect a Peugeot to feel like. i think my 405 would have a better ride. This may be due to different shocks I suppose (any ideas anyone?). Engine sounded reasonable sound. There was no coolant in the radiator (he said the workshop blokes told him not to run any?).

    All in all, I felt it was not what they were claiming. A 2002 year car should still be in really good shape. For example the door rubbers were cracked and older looking. And if it has never had an accident it should not have needed a re-paint unless it has spent most of its life in the weather.

    Any comments welcome? And any help with the year model stamp location would be helpful.
    If I need to I will take it to a Peugeot mechanic to check it out, but unless he drops his price there is no point.
    Last edited by meinkiev; 7th January 2016 at 02:14 AM.
    Shane

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    I get alarm bells at the no coolant statement. If any mechanic did say he shouldn't run it then that mechanic needs to be stood up against a wall and shot.
    That would be enough for me to walk away.
    The rest just confirms it. Go find a much better one for much less money.
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    I think the 405 is a better car, just the ground clearance that lets it down, do you travel on rough roads a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by meinkiev View Post
    Thanks for your comments Tadpole. Andy, you must have done some pretty adventurous travelling from Nairobi to London and down to SA? That's amazing.

    I just had a look at this 504 and now I am thinking on what John said about some devious shop work! I couldn't find a date stamped on it anywhere. The little aluminium compliance plate on the drivers side (right) fender under the bonnet did not seem to have a date on it, and I couldn't see it stamped anywhere else, and the owner did not seem to know either. So does anyone know where it should be located? I should have taken down the VIN to check somewhere online? It only has 137,000 k's on the clock but looks for all the world as if it's done more than this.

    A/C is working, just, but working (probably low on gas). But this is very secondary.

    It has been repainted for sure. He says it just had some sun damage, and that is why is it was repainted. But I am thinking a 2002 year model should not have needed a repaint. My 405 still has a fantastic original paint job and it's a 1996 model. It does not seem to have much rust, but a couple of paint bubbles just in front of the drivers side door low on the front mudguard. Door under-sills seem good. The clutch pedal has some free-play before disengaging, but otherwise feels OK. It has rear drum brakes and a single piece rear axle with coil springs (do you call that a live rear axle?). When he took me for a spin it the suspension did not feel as soft as I would expect a Peugeot to feel like. i think my 405 would have a better ride. This may be due to different shocks I suppose (any ideas anyone?). Engine sounded reasonable sound. There was no coolant in the radiator (he said the workshop blokes told him not to run any?).

    All in all, I felt it was not what they were claiming. A 2002 year car should still be in really good shape. For example the door rubbers were cracked and older looking. And if it has never had an accident it should not have needed a re-paint unless it has spent most of its life in the weather.

    Any comments welcome? And any help with the year model stamp location would be helpful.
    If I need to I will take it to a Peugeot mechanic to check it out, but unless he drops his price there is no point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    I get alarm bells at the no coolant statement. If any mechanic did say he shouldn't run it then that mechanic needs to be stood up against a wall and shot.
    That would be enough for me to walk away.
    The rest just confirms it. Go find a much better one for much less money.
    Agree, there are lots of alarm bells going off for me. I think there is something very strange, things which do not quite add up, about this car. I'd be walking away.

    Ian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    I get alarm bells at the no coolant statement. If any mechanic did say he shouldn't run it then that mechanic needs to be stood up against a wall and shot.
    That would be enough for me to walk away.
    The rest just confirms it. Go find a much better one for much less money.
    My thoughts too. There'll be others.
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    As far as the date is concerned, at least in Australia, there are two aluminium plates, one on the right (and rearward from the strut top) and one on the left hand side in about the same position. The one that says Automobiles Peugeot on the right doesn't show the date. The one on the left does - in short form.

    All doesn't sound good to me either and I'd be very wary. Why would you go to all the trouble of painting it and not replace old door rubbers or bother to use coolant?

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    It smells either older than stated or very much used to me. It might be a quite genuine situation. Nairobi is close to the equator and at 4,000 - 5,000 feet in the old money, so the sun is pretty strong. The situation in Kenya is simple: it is easy to get cars painted reasonably and relatively cheaply, and then I'd expect common to put up with old seals - it's the enthusiasts like us who'd chase new ones. It's a great place for making do with what you've got, or used to be when we lived there. We don't know where the new door seals came from on these late, African-built 504s either, so maybe they weren't the same quality as the original French ones.

    The coolant issue is enough for me though.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    I get alarm bells at the no coolant statement.
    Indeed.

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    There are some misguided souls who claim that rain water, being pure, will not cause corrosion by electrolysis. But the reality is that metal ions (charged particles) are picked up internally by the water and act as an electrolyte.

    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    The rest just confirms it.
    I agree completely. Walk away from it, dude. I use to buy and sell 504s in the 1980s and 90s, and having coolant was my one inflexible rule for buying them.

    This Luthier dude knows a thing or two as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    There are some misguided souls who claim that rain water, being pure, will not cause corrosion by electrolysis. But the reality is that metal ions (charged particles) are picked up internally by the water and act as an electrolyte.
    Yup.

    And that is assuming that the "non coolant" is distilled water, deionised water or rainwater, none of which I'd believe.... Tap water in Nairobi is partly deep groundwater if I recall, low salinity but way higher in dissolved constituent concentrations than rainwater. Unless there are corrosion inhibitors in the coolant, I reckon all we are discussing is the rate at which it WILL corrode somewhere, and most likely somewhere really inconvenient (both in the car and with respect to where the car is when it fails). Mind you, my Renault 750 sat for 12 years with rainwater in it and nothing dissolved much except the diecast hose spigots, but I expected worse.
    JohnW

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    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day,
    can you find a VIN or any other identifying number, body, chassis or engine ? A quick email to Peugeot will establish the credentials of the car.

    I emailed VW with the VIN of my Golf and within a week they replied with the date of manufacture and where it was sent to, and apologised for the delay.
    regards,
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    I emailed VW with the VIN of my Golf and within a week they replied with the date of manufacture and where it was sent to, and apologised for the delay.
    The info is available on line.
    Volkswagen VIN decoder - Lookup and check Volkswagen VIN number and get options and specs for free. Search Volkswagen history, price and car loans.

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    G'day,
    was this available in 2002 ?
    regards,
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    How many ECUs did that VW have?
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