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  1. #1
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    Default Kooti

    Hi All

    I have 1984 505 Executive 2.2 Fuel injected. I have an engine oil leak which i am finding very difficult to locate. it seems to be coming from under exhaust manifold & only when engine is running. engine not useing very much oil but has a lot of back pressure when i remove the oil filer cap from rocker cover. any ideas or suggestions "other than scrap it" would be appreciated.

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    I have two helpfull replies to my problem, would retentioning the head have any affect on my oil leak? as the vehicle is running well, I don't realy want to take the head off as it would probably mean refreshing the bottom end at the same time.
    Last edited by Kooti; 30th November 2015 at 04:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Hi Kooti!

    You'll find that "just scrap it" is not standard advice here.

    If the leak is minor, i would be more worried about the blowby. Have yo done a cylinder leakdown test? The valves are properly adjusted, ne-c'est pas? No badly worn valve guides?
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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    I think there is a fault with these motors in the area closest to the flywheel, passengers side.

    I have had the heads off heaps of them, (renault by the way) both 2 and 2.2l and none of them ever seal there.
    I have also done re-torques and found an alarming lack of torque in that area.
    Maybe new bolts would fix that???

    Dont be concerned about taking the head off.
    The finger of doom might be pointing at you, but I have never had an issue with doing so.
    In fact when I wanted to take the liners out, jeez they were stuck in good.

    I always retention the head at 500-1000 km, and then occasionally check those bolts. Doing so kept the fluids where they were supposed to be.

    One warning on my advice......being a serial fiddler, and having my car set up for quick head/motor changes, I never realy got more than 25k km out of an engine before changing to either another head or another engine, or doing a rebuild so i dont know what the long term consiquences are for retightening an old head gasket. Mine were never given the opportunity to get old.

    Not sure how a pug engine breaths, but get that sorted. It wont effect the head gasket seal, but may effect the other seals like crank/cam end seals and the rocker cover seal.
    On the rocker cover, i always glued the seal onto the rocker cover and left the engine side to seal with just oil.
    Dont over tighten the rocker cover nuts either.

    Even on a rebuilt motor, at idle it seems like there is blowby out the oil filler. Rev it to 4k rpm and this should entirely vanish.
    Have the degreaser ready though!!!

    Jo

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    Hi All

    I have been out of service for a while with some health issues, however now i'm back and looking for a rocker cover gasket for my 505. I have done a lot of searching on the net but it seems the only gasket I can find has to come from overseas. is anyone out there able to help with information on where i can purchase one in Australia. also where i might find a second hand or reconditioned head for same car.
    Thanks Chuck

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    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Which engine?

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    1984 Executive 2.2 fuel injected.

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    I have a 85 GTi motor you can have the head off for 50 bucks.

  8. #8
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kooti View Post
    1984 Executive 2.2 fuel injected.
    I think that motor is also the Renault 20 and 25, and the Citroen CX Athena and Reflex. Just a couple other places to check.

    A few of us here know what "health issues" can mean. Goodonya you're back up and running.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    I had a 2.2 GTi Executive with an oil leak. It was at the RH rear corner of the engine and was due to a crack in the block below a head stud. Not an uncommon problem on this engine apparently. My Peugeot/Citroen guru tried all sorts of solutions, but nothing lasted. Alas, when the ZF auto decided it didn't want to co-operate any longer we put the car out of its misery and wrecked it. I still have many parts including a good reconditioned head. Cheers, Robin

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    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Hoffmann View Post
    I had a 2.2 GTi Executive with an oil leak. It was at the RH rear corner of the engine and was due to a crack in the block below a head stud. Not an uncommon problem on this engine apparently. My Peugeot/Citroen guru tried all sorts of solutions, but nothing lasted. Alas, when the ZF auto decided it didn't want to co-operate any longer we put the car out of its misery and wrecked it. I still have many parts including a good reconditioned head. Cheers, Robin
    Apparently you aren't allowed to say that....

    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    Apparently you aren't allowed to say that....

    Dave
    Er, 'Please explain'. Cheers, Robin

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    Hi Thanks for the info on Renault 20-25. i had alook on the at photos i could find of these motors. they look the same as my Peugeot engine except it seems to be fitted reverse way around, the housing for thermostat is on the other side of the head to mine but rocker cover gasket looks to be the same. do you have any further information on wether they might be interchangeable? appreciate you help. Cheers

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    is it the same as my head? if so where are you at? dont need your address, just an approximate will do. i'm near Tamworth

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    Hi

    I assume you've tied the usual sources like Ken (ex Caravelle in Melbourne on 0400 566 119 or Dave Cavanaugh who's a sponsor of Aussie frogs.
    Regards
    Neil

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    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    This may not apply to your case but....
    My old 505GTI had a similar leak at about 270,000km.
    It is the first sign that the head gasket is moving/failing....
    A simple head removal and service including a touch-up regrind and seals, (check the play in the guides), fixed all ills.
    With the head off any wear in the bores will be evident, (you could still see the hatching in mine at the 1/2 mill km mark)...(these motors if looked after are unkillable).

    It was still going well at 530,000km.
    Tracking down a leak from the rear of the engine is a PITA...clean and look....drivers side rear is a dead giveaway!
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    Thanks Neil, i haven't tried Ken or Dave i will give them a call, thanks for the contact number.

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    Thanks to everyone for thier input. Neil i have contacted Ken, thank you for that info.
    I have had someone take a good look at my 505, oil is definitly coming from rear of head and small leak from pinion seal on the dif. compression is reasonble 1ll between 155 and 160 PSI. I was going to have a go at removing the head but everytime i look at it I am not sure my back will let me tackle it, especially when i look at getting access to the bolts of the exhaust & intake manifold. Am I just being a sook and should just do it? or am i being realistic? how hard is it??
    Sorry about my ramblings. I am caught between parking it and forgetting about it and forgetting the money i have already spent, or getting stuck in and spending more fixing it. plus if I doo fix it, it is still worth nothing when finished!!
    Apologise for babbling on, just frustated is all. Apart from banging my head against a bricl wall, If anybody got any ideas please let me know.
    Cheers James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kooti View Post
    is it the same as my head? if so where are you at? dont need your address, just an approximate will do. i'm near Tamworth
    I'm in Crows Nest, 40k north of Toowoomba. So not absurdly far from you. Cheers, Robin

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    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Hoffmann View Post
    Er, 'Please explain'. Cheers, Robin
    Kooti's original post:

    "Hi All

    I have 1984 505 Executive 2.2 Fuel injected. I have an engine oil leak which i am finding very difficult to locate. it seems to be coming from under exhaust manifold & only when engine is running. engine not useing very much oil but has a lot of back pressure when i remove the oil filer cap from rocker cover. any ideas or suggestions "other than scrap it" would be appreciated."



    Dave
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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reminder, 68 404....I'd forgotten the exact symptoms.

    The back pressure is your problem. It is forcing the oil out. There should be some way for the pressure to make its way out. Don't worry about where it is coming out. Just relieve the pressure. However I cannot advise about these particular engines. All I can think of is that there will most likely be some tube or PCV valve connected to the tappet cover, and that it will be clogged with oily fume residue.

    Earlier engines have NEGATIVE crankcase pressure.

  21. #21
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    The breather on the tappet cover is most likely the source of this particular back pressure problem. They can clog badly and can be difficult to clean. A good soak in appropriate cleaning fluid for a day or two should do the trick. Cheers, Robin.

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    Hi James, aka Kooti... Is your car a silver 505 and for sale? I've been looking at a silver executive in kootingal and debating making an offer. Ever since my last 505 I have wanted another... Ideally manual though. How does the auto run? Is the only issue this oil leak? If you have more pics send them through! Cheers, Tristan

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    I have been trying to stay out of this discussion but feel I should contribute before James stampedes into selling his car before the the diagnosis of its possible cause is fully plumbed.
    I have heard of a very low mileage STi [like about 40-50k on the clock] some time ago I guess due to crankcase pressure and blowing smoke ,being scrapped for that fault.
    My experience tells me that other than a cracked piston or something diabolical the chance of this in a Peugeot engine is so rare that more thought must be put into the problem and all available experience and knowledge must be expended before scrapping.
    Is appears to me that crankcase pressure in 2.2 l engines can be caused by not regular oil and filter changes and possibly junk oil from discount suppliers. The tappet cover on these engines seem to grow or lose pipes and "towers" with abandon by design!
    The STi has a 2mm dia metering adapter in the front of the inlet manifold which has by design a varying flow pattern,the delivery hose goes to a "tower" on the cover with a baffle to direct flow and return oil droplets back into cover, the other pipe from "tower" then continues gas flow to the air filter canister which had a 9mm device in the canister pipe inlet - I haven't examined this device as my car has no problems in this area -- despite just under 1/2 million KMs .But its had a lot of oil and filter changes!
    I have already posted on leak testing and drawn fire from "ramp captains" and a would be comedian so won't try it again - but I can assure anyone that this is as good a way of establishing general valve /headgasket/bore wear etc without dismantling as you will find. and cheap.
    Another 'frinstance is the later EFI 2.2 GTi tappet cover has the gas/fume channel running fore and aft with 4 [from memory] drain holes in the "channel" which are about 1.5mm dia or less,if they choke up with sludge the void would fill with oil and dump oil into the air pipe to the intake -- I havn't seen this but is a distinct possibility IMO..This is possibly a common design,I havn't had the inclination to start a tappet cover survey,so I'm generalizing I guess.
    This is nothing to do with the well known rear head gasket leak of course ,but a treatise on diagnosis with known knowledge from research and experience plus input from ones peers.
    Just an added bit - the crank case is supposed to be - with engine running - below atmospheric pressure,this means the engine ingests [nice word] fumes ,burns them which changes them from carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide in the exhaust -the first is regarded as more pollutant than the second ,cat converters can cope with dioxide then,the sub atmo pressures reduce oil leaks naturally.
    Hope I havn't kept you awake baz

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    ^ All good, detailed advice.


    It's a mucky job cleaning out these tubes / pipes / channels, but keep in mind there are worse jobs.

    The guy's expression says it all.

    Kooti-worst_job_2_xlarge_zpsbb1u1i6q.jpeg

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    Hi Tristan. Thanks for your reply, yes the car you have seen is mine, oil leak is now the only problem. Car runs well auto is not a problem, everything works. not sure how to send more photos? will look more at the site to see.

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