Front Suspension Bushes, What to lubricate?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Default Front Suspension Bushes, What to lubricate?

    Bascically doing the front end of the 504 604 style.

    Struts, calipers, sway bar etc. Replacing Steering rack also, just s standard one.

    Should I lubricate the bushes on the sway bar, front end (top hat) and triangle arm bushes with rubber grease?

    Just wondering if this will help things or just attract dust. Or should they be left as they are. Are they supposed to grip things?

    I think the front end ones, the ones that look like top hats need grease as the steel cyclinder in them looks like it requires grease?


    any thoughts?

    thanks

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  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Perhaps grease inside the sleeve to prevent it rusting onto the arm... but I wouldn't grease anything else.

  3. #3
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    ...unless you're using polyurethane on any of them, which usually should be greased.

    Shobbz, one point (your manual probably says this anyway) but your comment about them gripping is relevant...you're meant to tighten any suspension parts containing bushes at their normal height (with the car's weight on the suspension) specifically for this reason - because they grip a bit and give the rubber some shear. Tightening at the stock height reduces this.

    Stuey

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    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    ...unless you're using polyurethane on any of them, which usually should be greased.

    Shobbz, one point (your manual probably says this anyway) but your comment about them gripping is relevant...you're meant to tighten any suspension parts containing bushes at their normal height (with the car's weight on the suspension) specifically for this reason - because they grip a bit and give the rubber some shear. Tightening at the stock height reduces this.

    Stuey
    Yeah thought this was the case.

    Put everything together, then tighten when car is supporting its own weight?

    shobbz
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    Yep. They usually recommend a full tank of fuel and with the driver or similar weight sitting in it, but I don't think you have to be this fussy.

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    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Shobbz,

    I'm considering replacing all the front end rubbers on my 504 one day, and possibly the rears too. Where'd you get 'em from, how much did you pay and what type are they? I've heard Nolathane bushes are the best, is this the case? How difficult is the job and what tools do you require, i.e. do you need a press to get the bushes out?

    Lots of questions, eh!

    Cheers,

    Matt.
    On the internet, no one knows that you are only wearing a fez.

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    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Matt, understand that for me this has not been a nice process, I started this about a week and a half ago, granted that I can only work on the car on weekends. I hope that when you do it it runs a lot smoothly

    As for Nolathane bushes I have a packet of them some where, yet to use them as yet. I really don't know that much about them.

    Getting the front struts off is easy, the damn things are heavy, 604 are heavier. My left side struts were held on by 2 stripped bolt and 1 half stripped one. More bolts to replace

    Sway bar rubbers are faitly easy vice grips or even better a clamp to squeeze them together helped me.

    Triangle arm ones apparently need some special tool or so it says in the manual. The ones on the struts seemed okay so I left them.

    The sway bar attachey thingies are easy to install. Bolt on and off.

    The front top hat ones are FRIGGIN IMPOSSIBLE?

    I have to ask HOW DOES ONE DO THIS. Not yelling but I have been battling with the vice and clamps all day. The 504 service manual says to bathe them in metho, then that's it?????? Nothing on how to get a big friggin rubber into a smaller hole? Tried to pull them in with threaded bar also to no avail. Tried puttiing in a socket the size of the bracket to counter the rubber also no effect

    Has anyone done this with home style tools?

    Btw I got all my rubbers from a peugeot mechanic here in brisbane. I assume that they sourced them from EAI in melb or possibly somewhere in sydney.

    The rubbers are not that expensive so all in all should be worthwhile when its done. The ones that i have taken off were in bad shape. Few bolts have also gone to heaven.

    Car has had a hard life, mostly me. Will be good to have front wheels and suspension soon

    shobbz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shobbz
    Triangle arm ones apparently need some special tool or so it says in the manual.

    The front top hat ones are FRIGGIN IMPOSSIBLE?

    I have to ask HOW DOES ONE DO THIS. Not yelling but I have been battling with the vice and clamps all day. The 504 service manual says to bathe them in metho, then that's it?????? Nothing on how to get a big friggin rubber into a smaller hole? Tried to pull them in with threaded bar also to no avail. Tried puttiing in a socket the size of the bracket to counter the rubber also no effect

    Has anyone done this with home style tools?

    shobbz

    I recently went through this exercise with my 505. The front radius arm bushes are a bastard to squeeze in with simple tools. I started a thread a few weeks back to get the good oil on installation. Freezing the bushes was advised, as was lubricating with grease or brake fluid. Graham Wallis also recommended the use of a vice or press to squeeze 'em in. This would be they way to go, but I don't have either of these. In the end I froze them and greased them. I don't think the freezing did much if anything. Those front bushes are a big piece of rubber and need to shrink a fair bit. The greasing helped, but created another set of slippery problems. My driver's side front bush went in very easily, but the nearside one was, as above, a bastard.

    I cleaned the old bits of rubber off the inside of the mount first to prevent sticking. Then I squeezed the frozen, lubricated bush in using a long bolt and some decent sized washers, cranking it in slowly, paying particular attention to keeping it straight so that it didn't jam itself in on an angle. This worked to get the bush in most of the way, but I was still left with a gap of 4-5mm which I eliminated in a most dodgy way.

    The dodgy method: I installed the radius arm with the gap. After lowering the car's weight back onto the suspension and tightening all other nuts to their according torque requirements, I then rolled the car forward down a gentle slope and braked suddenly. Lo and behold the bush wash finally seated. I then tightened the front nut the remaining 4-5mm and I was away. I only used this method through sheer frustration though, and I'm sure it's not best practise...zac

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    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zac505
    I recently went through this exercise with my 505. The front radius arm bushes are a bastard to squeeze in with simple tools. I started a thread a few weeks back to get the good oil on installation. Freezing the bushes was advised, as was lubricating with grease or brake fluid. Graham Wallis also recommended the use of a vice or press to squeeze 'em in. This would be they way to go, but I don't have either of these. In the end I froze them and greased them. I don't think the freezing did much if anything. Those front bushes are a big piece of rubber and need to shrink a fair bit. The greasing helped, but created another set of slippery problems. My driver's side front bush went in very easily, but the nearside one was, as above, a bastard.

    I cleaned the old bits of rubber off the inside of the mount first to prevent sticking. Then I squeezed the frozen, lubricated bush in using a long bolt and some decent sized washers, cranking it in slowly, paying particular attention to keeping it straight so that it didn't jam itself in on an angle. This worked to get the bush in most of the way, but I was still left with a gap of 4-5mm which I eliminated in a most dodgy way.

    The dodgy method: I installed the radius arm with the gap. After lowering the car's weight back onto the suspension and tightening all other nuts to their according torque requirements, I then rolled the car forward down a gentle slope and braked suddenly. Lo and behold the bush wash finally seated. I then tightened the front nut the remaining 4-5mm and I was away. I only used this method through sheer frustration though, and I'm sure it's not best practise...zac
    Zac,

    I like and respect your dodgy way

    I tried to squeeze them in also with no success.

    I have not tried freezing them, might give that a go. I lubricated them with rubber grease but unfortunately it has no shrinking problems.

    I am now thinking of using a oil filter remover, it can become quite small so hopefully i can get it small enough to get these bushes in

    Can these things be damaged in the process? Surely the lone gunman cannot harm them more that driving on the road can do when they are installed in the car?

    shobbz
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Default Top Hat bushes on a 504/505

    Bob Warren of Peugeotcare, ( which no longer existing as a business) told me that the best way to get in the top hat bushes is to use water or spit as a lubricant, and to never use rubber grease. Also, believe it or not, when fitting them using a vice, to push them in with a socket butted up against THE STEEL SHAFT IN THE MIDDLE....! He assured me it wouldn't shear off the rubber. Apparently they're hard to get in completely otherwise. He's had 20 yrs experience
    Quote Originally Posted by Shobbz
    Bascically doing the front end of the 504 604 style.

    Struts, calipers, sway bar etc. Replacing Steering rack also, just s standard one.

    Should I lubricate the bushes on the sway bar, front end (top hat) and triangle arm bushes with rubber grease?

    Just wondering if this will help things or just attract dust. Or should they be left as they are. Are they supposed to grip things?

    I think the front end ones, the ones that look like top hats need grease as the steel cyclinder in them looks like it requires grease?


    any thoughts?

    thanks

    shobbz

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano
    Bob Warren of Peugeotcare, ( which no longer existing as a business) told me that the best way to get in the top hat bushes is to use water or spit as a lubricant, and to never use rubber grease. Also, believe it or not, when fitting them using a vice, to push them in with a socket butted up against THE STEEL SHAFT IN THE MIDDLE....! He assured me it wouldn't shear off the rubber. Apparently they're hard to get in completely otherwise. He's had 20 yrs experience

    Beano,

    No rubber grease huh, hmmmmmm, ah well what's done is done.

    Freezing has helped so far.

    I was afraid to try the socket. Now no fear

    Soon to again have front wheels.

    thanks
    again

    shobbz
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shobbz
    Beano,

    No rubber grease huh, hmmmmmm, ah well what's done is done.

    Freezing has helped so far.

    I was afraid to try the socket. Now no fear

    Soon to again have front wheels.

    thanks
    again

    shobbz
    The Struts are on

    I was able to get the front rubbers in Lube Lube and More Lube.

    Now I guess I just drop it down and tighten everything up

    Hurrah, the pug has wheels again, 4 of

    Will more details tommorrow if i remember.

    shobbz
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  13. #13
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    I've got to agree with Zac. I've done quite a few and its a bastard of a job.
    Freeze then coat with soap then squeeze in with a bolt and socket. Then freezing is not so much to shrink then bush but to make it hard so it will push in better.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    The car is on the road and feels a lot softer at the front.

    The car feels a little sloppy at the front though?

    Over a speed bump at a shopping centre yesterday the steering wheel went kinda crazy as in left and right when I went over the bump. The car seemed to jump a bit? This all hapened at 5km/h if that, not sure what would happen if I was going faster?

    On the roads it seems to be fine. Maybe a little bit of vibration, but not the out of alignment kind. The car was aligned yesterday though.

    Steering rack is great, lot firmer than the worn previous one?


    I think that everything is tight? THe front top hat washers do not look properly seated but i a hoping that they will settle then i can tighten the down firmly.

    Am I just being paranoid?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shobbz
    The car is on the road and feels a lot softer at the front.

    The car feels a little sloppy at the front though?

    Over a speed bump at a shopping centre yesterday the steering wheel went kinda crazy as in left and right when I went over the bump. The car seemed to jump a bit? This all hapened at 5km/h if that, not sure what would happen if I was going faster?

    On the roads it seems to be fine. Maybe a little bit of vibration, but not the out of alignment kind. The car was aligned yesterday though.

    Steering rack is great, lot firmer than the worn previous one?


    I think that everything is tight? THe front top hat washers do not look properly seated but i a hoping that they will settle then i can tighten the down firmly.

    Am I just being paranoid?

    Shobbz, I'm no expert, and please correct me if you know better, but I would've thought that you'd need to seat those front bushes properly before alignment as I think they'd affect your caster (and probably your toe-in if they're flexing about?) - Gurus?
    Also I would've imagined that you could damage other bits driving with them not seated ie. lower susp. arm, struts, steering arms?. Once again though, please correct me if I'm wrong.
    I'd be interested to see other responses here though, as I've just done my own radius arm bushes and have noticed the front feeling a bit rubbery. I took mine in for a wheel alignment once I'd installed my bushes and was told that they could only adjust the toe-in and that the caster was out by 1 degree side to side, and that there was nothing they could do about it.

    Could someone shed some light on the whole wheel alignment thing? How tight do you make the front radius arm nuts, and is this the caster adjustment? Anybody?

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