Peugeot reliability
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    Icon13 Peugeot reliability

    'nuff said

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    Fellow Frogger! MR604's Avatar
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    Did you get Friday arvo/Monday morning built one

    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila. - Mitch Radcliffe

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 pugs
    Did you get Friday arvo/Monday morning built one

    Fri arvo special with cheese & fries

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    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
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    Err, and the point of this thread is....

    -- DJ

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! MadBiker's Avatar
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    ox·y·mo·ron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-môrn, -mr-)
    n. pl. ox·y·mo·ra (-môr, -mr) or ox·y·mo·rons
    A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [Greek oxumron, from neuter of oxumros, pointedly foolish : oxus, sharp; see oxygen + mros, foolish, dull.]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    oxy·mo·ronic (-m-rnk) adj.
    oxy·mo·roni·cal·ly adv.

    [Download or Buy Now]
    Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
    Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
    Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


    oxymoron

    \Ox`y*mo"ron\, n. [NL., fr. Gr. ???, fr. ??? pointedly foolish; ??? sharp + ??? foolish.] (Rhet.) A figure in which an epithet of a contrary signification is added to a word; e. g., cruel kindness; laborious idleness.


    Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


    oxymoron

    n : conjoining contradictory terms (as in `deafening silence')
    ===============
    1991 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1994 Toyota Camry CSI
    2002 Honda CBR600F4i
    1989 Honda CD250U
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason20
    'nuff said

    Jason

    can you be a little more specific please

    2 words doesn't really halp any of us understand one way or the other if you are having a bad or good time with the car

    there are many of us that don't have any trouble with pugs but there are some that do have some troubles as in all makes of cars

    regards
    the 'rambo
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    Jason

    can you be a little more specific please

    2 words doesn't really halp any of us understand one way or the other if you are having a bad or good time with the car

    there are many of us that don't have any trouble with pugs but there are some that do have some troubles as in all makes of cars

    regards
    the 'rambo
    I agree with Pugrambo...."'nuff said" as a thread opening post does not tell anyone much at all. Are you having a bad time or good time with the reliability of Pugs? IMHO, the older pugs seem to be more reliable from the point of replacement parts. My S16 seem to need more things replaced over the same period of ownerhip than my 505 sti. Even the mechanics say that the older pugs are more durable than newer ones. But when all is said and done I believe that Pugs are amongst one of the most reliable vehicles I have owned. Keep them serviced regularly, replace worn out parts when needed with genuine parts and they should almost go forever
    2007 VW Jetta 2.0 TDi 6sp manual

    2001 VW Bora 4-Motion - flooded away
    1998 Peugeot 406 SV manual - Gone to Hail Heaven
    1994 Silver S16 - Gone
    1983 505 Sti - Gone to good home

  8. #8
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    My modern Pugs have been very easy ownership with nothing significant going wrong.

    My only gripe is that brake disc rotors don't last that long on modern Pugs. The rotors on our 1978 504 are 320 000km old and still going strong and have never been machined (AND its an Auto).

    As others have said Jason, your opening post is a little too vauge. What do you want to know?

    Derek

  9. #9
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadBiker
    ox·y·mo·ron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-môrn, -mr-)
    A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.
    Military Intelligence
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    Beautiful Volvo .....

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
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    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    I dunno what Madbiker was on about with his oxymoron's

    My car (405mi16 s1) left me stranded 2 days ago for the second time. got it fixed today, needed a new crank angle sensor or something... $280 + labour,

    I just felt like having this whinge because since i've owned the car (2.5yrs now) the longest run without a hitch has been 3 months...

    I love the car to bits but i've come to the point where I don't trust it and can't rely on it anymore. Like most of my friends & family

    I'm putting one of PeterT's special inlet cams in soon & it's kinda soured the whole exitement of it all...

    ahh well s**t happens...

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason20
    I dunno what Madbiker was on about with his oxymoron's

    My car (405mi16 s1) left me stranded 2 days ago for the second time. got it fixed today, needed a new crank angle sensor or something... $280 + labour,

    I just felt like having this whinge because since i've owned the car (2.5yrs now) the longest run without a hitch has been 3 months...

    I love the car to bits but i've come to the point where I don't trust it and can't rely on it anymore. Like most of my friends & family

    I'm putting one of PeterT's special inlet cams in soon & it's kinda soured the whole exitement of it all...

    ahh well s**t happens...
    This thread smells like flamebait......

    Somehow I don't think it is fair or accurate to state all Peugeots unreliable based upon the experience of one 15+yr old top of the line (ie more complex and expensive than the average peugeot) car with an unknown history.....because you've had to replace items that degrade, wear or simply age.

    Maybe it's perceptual.....I don't consider my car unreliable because it needed it's clutch replaced at 140,000+km that's a running cost, things break, things wear....that's life.

    If you can't trust the car and you're not mechanically inclined, find a good mechanic and get it completely looked over.
    Head the problems off at the pass....don't wait for things to fail, know what's going to fail and when it is going to fail, maintain the car.

    If you can't afford to do that, sell it. you will save alot of heartache. The car is too expensive for you to maintain. There's no point owning a car that can't reliably meet it's primary "base" purpose, ie move you from one place to another.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! yawood's Avatar
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    In my limited experience modern pugs aren't as well built as the older ones. I say limited because I've never actually owned a modern one but I've driven a number of leased ones in France. Did the job very well but never felt as solid as the old ones and were prone to drop bits of trim. Must admit that the new HDi is a fantastic bit of kit though. But (isn't there always a but) I'm not sure what it'll be like to try and keep that pressure up when it's twenty years old.

  13. #13
    nJm
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    I would have to say my 1983 505 is remarkably reliable for a car of its age and kms. Sure I've had quite a few problems, but as Dtwo was saying, they were normal old car things like a clutch, a couple of hoses and brake bits and pieces.

    In the few years I've owned it now, I've driven it pretty hard at times but the engine and gearbox have never failed. I just make sure the car has an oil change every 5,000km and keep the timing and mixture in order. A few of my bigger problems that have just 'popped up' are due to a mechanic not seeing or telling me about them (eg strong wear in some suspension components).

    A few friends have recommended I sell my car whenever I have a problem, but to be honest I can't think of anything I would want to replace it with at that price. And considering that I now know where I stand with my car's mechanical condition, I am in a much more secure position than buying another old car and having to find out about its problems.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    If reliability is a worry, why are you talking hot cams?
    In reality, high performance cars, particularly ones driven for performance, give you heaps of get up & go but not necessarily big troublefree mileages.
    Watch the WRC or V8 Supercars & of a field of 30 how many don't have a problem or two?
    I have a BX 16V...goes like the clappers, but I have to consistently service & maintain it. In contrast, I have a CX c-matic; goes adequately by comparison but is ultra reliable.
    We just bought a 16Trs cheap. Had one before & did 22,000 klms in about 18 months all troublefree. I expect to get the same performance out of this Trs; again, not bad performance but great reliability.
    So as has been explained; either buy something less refined performancewise, say 405 SRi and have less standard of performance or find a mechanic who will throw an eye over the car critically on a regular basis or do basic maintenance yourself.
    I personally try to do a stem to stern maintenance check once a year and I'd suggest you do the same. I am presently reading a thread from overseas by someone who has a BX Diesel that has done over 900,000 miles - yes, that's nine hundred thousand MILES. But it's not a 16V it's a common old 1.9 litre naturally aspirated diesel that has been owner serviced from brand new and has hardly had a cent spent on it. It commuted 1500 miles a week.
    That's the kind of mileage they're capable of providing they're not high performance but they have to be adequately maintained...end of story.
    As they say; a good tradesman never blames the tools & if the car is constantly misbehaving, go looking for the reason why; don't blame the entire marque.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    I won't even bother arguing, I might not come out alive.

    The part that went was made by 'bosch', so I guess it's not Mr Peugeot's fault. My mechanic is very good, he's not a french car specialist, but he found the problem pretty quicky.

    I wasn't saying all peugeots are unreliable, just mine in particular. But yes I guess it is high on k's, 240,000.. The people who owned it before me, serviced it every few months, at a peugeot specialist. I was shocked to look through all the reciepts & all the money they'd spent.

    'Head the problems off at the pass....don't wait for things to fail, know what's going to fail and when it is going to fail, maintain the car.'

    I do weekly checks. Some things just jump up and bite you on the ass.

    Yes Alan, I realise high performance is high maintenance
    I was tossing up between getting a newer car or doing up the 405. but anything brand new below $20,000 will be a huge step down from my 405.

    I dont think changing the cam will require the need for more regular maintenance, or cause the car any problems, i'm replacing my bottom engine mount at the same time, the whole job is going to cost $830 which I don't mind spending. PeterT did a compression test on my car and it came up healthy, if not I wouldn't have bothered.

    Im just a little annoyed because I had to spend $280 on this stupid sensor today.

    Sorry to offend anyone.

    Jason

  16. #16
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Don't think you offended anyone mate, just most of us trying to come to grips with what the problem was; picked you were a bit pissed off and I think we we're all a bit taken aback that you might be dropping the bundle.
    The mileage isn't high incidentally; they usually start showing their age from about 450,000 onwards, so you've got a way to go; enjoy....they'll probably never make another as exciting


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i wasn't offended i was just curious

    mate we have a 604 here with around 360k on it and i'm still tossing up wether i should service or replace the tranny in it

    yet i had another 604 once that caused me a little anguish but finally sorted it out

    each car is different and as they age like everything else little things will happen

    they even happen on new cars so don't be too worried

    i have a mate that bought a falcon ute new and has nothing but trouble and it wasn't just his either as his neighbour bought one within weeks of him and his did nothing but play up

    there are plenty of people here that can lead you in the right direction
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! MadBiker's Avatar
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    1991 405 mi16 - i probably would have spent more than the car cost on it...

    just have to live with it, too poor to buy a new car, just have to keep the car going, i find im saving a whole lot of money by doing a lot of the work my self.. as stressfull as it is, most money is in the labour...


    Just keep the car running....

    Cheers
    nathan
    ===============
    1991 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1994 Toyota Camry CSI
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    1989 Honda CD250U
    www.mad-biker.com
    ===============

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    Military Intelligence
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    Organised Mess
    Pretty Ugly
    Bad Sex
    Cardinal Sin
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    Beautiful Volvo .....

    - XTC206 -
    Missed the two best

    female intuition
    and the best
    Microsoft Works
    Neil
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  20. #20
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    I have spent far too much on my car.

    But at least I know where its all been.

    shobbz
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    2005 407 ST Exec
    1975 504 GL

  21. #21
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    I had problems with my old 306 Xsi, cost me lots of $$ to fix BUT i blame that on the service centre i originally brought it to. Lots of money later and still no real fix. Then I took it to the Paul V, $150 later it was fixed properly!

    My 1st pug wasn't as reliable as I was hoping...BUT the satisfaction they give you when they are running fine is amazing!! I now drive a 205..it blows smoke and i'm loving it to bits!

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Dr. 306's Avatar
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    I've had:

    Engine Fans Die - This was fun

    Discs have to be machined

    Squeaks and Rattles always appearing and the disappearing

    There's probably a few more major things but time might have healed the wounds of those ones...

    '99 306 XSi Black Metallic

  23. #23
    XTC
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    It's a numbers game ... 4,000,000 x 206's have been built, of course there is some with relaibility problems. But if it was a complete lemon you'd think they would stop making them now?

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason20
    I wasn't saying all peugeots are unreliable, just mine in particular. But yes I guess it is high on k's, 240,000.. The people who owned it before me, serviced it every few months, at a peugeot specialist. I was shocked to look through all the reciepts & all the money they'd spent.

    'Head the problems off at the pass....don't wait for things to fail, know what's going to fail and when it is going to fail, maintain the car.'

    I do weekly checks. Some things just jump up and bite you on the ass.

    Sorry to offend anyone.
    Sorry, I can't see how ""thumbs down" Peugeot reliability" (the thread title) can be read any other way than all "Peugeots have suspect reliability"........It certainly doesn't suggest you are only referring to your particular car, if that is the intention perhaps the title should be changed?

    Things do and can break from time to time regardless of our best maintenance routines.....that is life.

    If you have only had 3 months reliable service out of 2.5yrs ownership of a 405 MI16....there is definitely something wrong with the way it is maintained.
    These cars, while IMO one of the more temperamental/expensive to maintain Peugeots you could own, are not that troublesome when it decent condition.

    Unfortunately money spent/receipts from previous owners are only an indicator of the car's maintenance life.....it says nothing for the quality of the maintenance nor does the dollar figure directly relate to any substantive time figure you can expect the car to run reliably for.

    My perspective is coloured by an Alfa I drove for several years and spent many (many) thousands of dollars keeping the car running with an excellent mechanic.....it still stranded me from time to time between it's regular services......

    The catch was, It was in very ordinary condition when I bought it and I was fixing problems as they occurred rather than fixing them in advance or having any insight into what/when they would occur, because it seemed cheaper to "fix" it than "maintain" it.

    My other mistake was to assume, a $50,000 car in the mid 80's does not require "$50,000 car" maintenance, regardless of it's depreciated value....the cost of the car's components are still inline with an expensive car.
    The value of a car's maintenance/parts does not depreciate with a car's resale value.

    That's about where similarities end, the MI16 doesn't have many glaring design or component manufacture faults which plague it's reliability.

    My Alfa blew head gaskets regularly (the ol' 2.5 v6, till I replaced it), original engine was worn out at 160,000km, Synchros lasted about 10,000km in a rebuilt gearbox, had wonderful rubber donuts in the driveline which wore away every 2yrs or so unless mothered, an exotic ( in price, for a standard car at the time) twin plate clutch that went in a spectacular way when it let go and most of this is on a car that had done 80,000km less than your MI16........they were just the "normal" things which failed in the Alfa, it had many more weird and wonderful things go wrong too.

    My 205 which I've now driven for almost 100,000km has been utterly reliable....it rattles, it creaks, it idles like crap....but it doesn't break down.
    Other than regular servicing (pads, filters etc etc), I've had an o2 sensor fail, a fuel pump and a clutch needed replacing in 3yrs.

    In my books, that's a pretty reliable car......even before taking into account that it is 10+yrs old now, and higher strung than garden variety Peugeots.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Last edited by Dave; 26th March 2004 at 01:23 PM.


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