505 V6 Diff noises...
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Jason Morris's Avatar
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    Icon4 505 V6 Diff noises...

    Hi all, long time no post !
    Yesterday I heard the most expensive noise I've ever heard in my own car , it all started two weeks ago when I thought I would be 'pro-active' instead of waiting for something to go wrong (bad move):

    The 505 S2 wagon with the V6 had been a joy to drive, the only thing that annoyed me was a sort of bearing noise, only audible at 'zero' power on a quiet road & low speed - putting power on or braking it would go away. It was subtle but I could feel the harshness all the time, not like the silky 504. It seemed to be up under the front seats, so thought I would check driveshaft universal & centre bearing. I knew what I was in for getting the darn things out - anyone in oz done an S2 wagon with 4HP22 [email protected]#[email protected]$# Lost count of the hours getting it out. Anyway both looked fine so spent several hours putting it all back in. Back splines were utterly dry so it was a good thing to get them greased again. Meantime of course diff had been dripping it's fluid into a tray, I measured it as being a litre. Needed the car the next day, so thought there'd be enough left in it for a 12km round trip, but coming back after work up our steep hill......let's just say it sounded like putting a spoon into a wastemaster as I backed the power off & on !!!

    (Ray, I know I should have put a nut back on the diff bolts to hold the seal plate on, an expensive lesson !)

    Needless to say, topped up the fluid at once ! Driving to work today there is noticeably more diff whine, and the bearing noise is definately discernable as originating from the diff!! (Like often heard eminating from Escorts/Cortinas as they drive by)

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    So my question is : how many times has anyone seen worn crown/pinion/gears in a pug diff, or is it more likely to be stuffed bearings. I was told that some machining was done to make the V6 diff inards fit into the 505 wagon housing - maybe it was badly setup way back when it was done in '96 or so. The good thing is that the diff is a breeze to get out compared to the driveshaft, but getting replacements could be interesting for the V6 ratio. (unsure what it is at present, may be same as a diesel). I've never had a diff apart, but have access to the tools required for setting up and factory manuals, so I might consider doing it sooner rather than later. Certainly can't put up with the noise now, I want it silent !!
    Thanks,
    Jason

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    sounds like it could be bearings that have died in the diff but if it has run short of oil the crown and pinion will be a bit sus and will need to be checked out

    to see what the ratio is there will be a stamping on the end of the pinion where the tail shaft connects to the diff

    do you know if it is a limited slip diff ?

    a lot of the V6 and turbo 505's had them
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Sorry to hear about the diff,
    To get the ratio of it jack up a back wheel and rotate the engine once with it it in 4th gear, may have to take the plugs out of donk, get someone reliable to count how many times the backwheel rotates ie, 1 to 4.2 times

    My S2 4spd auto had a 4.5 x1 LSD, my SR5spd wagon has a 4.2 and a 604 sedan has a 3.7 from memory.

    In the PCCV Torque magazine Jean Christian Muscheler had a few diffs for sale a few months back. Maybe worth a try. Once you know the ratio and if it is LSD try a wanted add .
    Good luck.

  4. #4
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    this is a copy of all the diff ratios made for the 504/505/604 for future reference

    A - 6X43 = 7.167
    B - 6X37 = 6.167
    C - 8X45 = 5.625
    F - 8X39 = 4.875
    G - 8X37 = 4.625
    H - 9X38 = 4.222
    J - 9X37 = 4.111 505/ 504 wagon
    K - 9X35 = 3.889 504
    L - 9X34 = 3.778 504 TI / 604
    M - 10X37 = 3.700 604
    N - 12X43 = 3.583 604
    P - 13X45 = 3.462
    Q - 11X35 = 3.182
    R - 13X43 = 3.308
    S - 13X40 = 3.077
    T - 15X43 = 2.867

    if anyone wants to add what goes with what feel free
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Thanks Rambo, clarifies a few things, could not believe the ratio in the rear of 92 505 auto wagon. Is 404 ute originally around 4.6 or .7?
    CU

  6. #6
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine
    Thanks Rambo, clarifies a few things, could not believe the ratio in the rear of 92 505 auto wagon. Is 404 ute originally around 4.6 or .7?
    CU

    4.875 sounds familiar dor the 404 ute but as the only 404 utes i have ever had anything to do with have had 3.78 ratios from a 504 i can only hazard a guess

    graham or someone else would know for sure though
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Jason Morris's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, I'm planning on ripping (sorry, carefully dismantling) into it next weekend, so I'll let you know what it looks like ! Local Pug guru has never had to rebuild a diff yet, and my 504 one is totally silent after 33 years, so it'll be interesting.
    Jason

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