1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion
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Thread: 1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion

  1. #1
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    Default 1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion

    Hello all,

    I have toyed with the idea of putting a five speed in my 404. It is a 1969 with a BA7 in it. A BA7/5 should pretty much just bolt right in, but I've heard from some friends in the US there are a few complications:
    1. The speedometer cable is not the same for any release of the BA7/5 and the 404 dash. I've heard later 505's had a large square drive going into the speedo which maybe could be filed down to fit into the smaller square drive in the 404's speedo.
    2. The shifter linkage wants to collide directly with the tail housing support on the transmission (the thing that holds those two rubber mounted blocks). Keep in mind, I'm in the USA, so its all Left hand drive up here.
    I know in Argentina, the 404 Grand Prix had a BA7/5 in it, so maybe someone there could tell me how they got around this shifter issue.

    Anyways, I thought I'd ask, does anyone have any experience doing this conversion? If you could give me a blow by blow of what it would take that would be much appreciated!

    Thanks so much,
    Wade

    Edit: I'm actually not sure about the Grand Prix being a BA7/5, but I know they had floor shifts

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    Last edited by wadehilts; 16th September 2015 at 07:03 AM.

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    The Grand Prix and the GT were floor shift.

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    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    And I think they used the C3 4 speed.

    The late BA7 equipped 404Cs had a Nardi floor shifter operated by levers with ball and socket (unlike the Nardi floor shifter for the C3 which was rigidly attached to the gearbox). So if you could find a 404 BA7 Nardi it might solve that issue (or not).
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    Thanks Mike. I haven't driven my 404 at highway speed much yet (after a fresh engine rebuild, I'm bringing her along slow). But I am curious, how fast does a 404 rev in high gear going, say, 60 mph? Is it manageable? Are there ways to mitigate the inherently low gearing of the car (bigger tires?)?

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    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    28.43 km/h (17.66 MPH) per 1000 RPM in top with 165-15 tires.

    If you go to Michelin 180 HR 15 XAS (expensive!) on the original rims - they just fit according to Michelin - the gearing goes about 4% taller.

    The stroke is short by modern standards at 73 mm so the piston speeds are low and hence RPM per se is not a big deal in terms of wear. I will probably put 180 HR 15 on my car when it's restored.

    At 5880 RPM (maximum for the KF2), the car will be doing 167 km/h (104 MPH) on 165s and about 174 on 180s.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
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    Has anyone ever heard of a column shift linkage working on a BA7/5? I'd imagine it would require some serious modification...

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    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    Yes, some members of Le Club 404 have done this. Their forum has a bit of information on it.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
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    Really? interesting, do you have a link to that thread? I have spent 20 minutes and I cannot find it with the search function set to BA7/5.. The French translation isn't helping either haha. Thanks for the info Mike!

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    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    Boîte 5 vitesses

    Apparently there is some body shell surgery required - to clear the rear of the housing - as well as machining of gearbox primary shaft. And then the shifter rods have to be fabricated... I have never seen a car with this conversion or spoken with anyone who has done it so the sketchy bits of info on this forum will have to do for now!
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
    2013 Ford Fiesta SE 1.6 manual
    2006 smart BRABUS Tailor-Made Canada 1 cabriolet
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    You require a BA-7-5 from 505 GR/SR (XN engined 505)

    You need to use a 504 wagon rear gear box mount.

    You need to use a 505 slave cylinder and adapt the tube from the 404 to fit or make a special rigid pipe and use a 404 front disk brake hose as flexible section at the cylinder end.

    You need to fabricate brackets to hold the remote gear gear change.

    I think(can't recall)an early 505 speedo cable fit the gearbox and the cluster, but you need to fit the BA-7-4 (old) drive pinion.

    Provided the car has 2l engine everything bolts up, can't see why a 1600 engine shouldn't also work.

    You need to panel beat the tunnel on the LHS, rear rhs , and carry out extensive surgery to the top of the 404 tunnel to fit the 505 tunnel top cover assembly.

    5th gear gives approximately a 20% drop in top gear revs for the same road speed of the 4 speed gear box.
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    Many thanks. Useful information

    Any tips on what bits/bastardry needed to do it while retaining column change in RHD car, for those obsessed with looking original?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    Many thanks. Useful information

    Any tips on what bits/bastardry needed to do it while retaining column change in RHD car, for those obsessed with looking original?
    GW is the man ask about that. I believe it's done using a cable system off the original shift.
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    Hi does anyone have pictures of a BA 7/5 in a 404 and the linkages to make the column shift work
    On the 404 ba 7/4 there is a spigot in the gearbox for the linkage axle that goes from gearbox to chassis this spigot is only on the left hand side of the 7/5 gearbox can you use the ba 7/4 main casting to overcome this or are they different internally.1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-img_1417.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-img_1418.jpg

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I've never seen a Ba7-5 conversion with other than a floor shift.

    You use a 504 wagon rear mount and make a bracket to hold the gear shift.

    GW has mention that a conversion was done with a column shift. Two flexible cables were used to operate the gearbox cranks apparently.
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    Thanks I trail fitted the gearbox this afternoon the rear gear selector had to be cut down and lever angle changed with this minimal cutting to the transmission tunnel will be required to made the main selector work.
    Can the main selector that exits the top of the gearbox on the left be reversed to exit on the right hand side.
    I,am in a dilema about this as it
    alters the car permanently from original and will have an effect on the enjoyable simple 404 column change. However the 5 speed will make the ute a better more relaxed drive.

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    I believe a cable helps the column shift conversion, don't know the details though.

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    Hi does anyone have a broken or worn out ba 7/5 gearbox that i can use to experiment with preferably in southeast Qld region.
    Please p.m
    Marty.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Try Demannu
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    ^ He's not here any more. Moved to Melbourne. You may meet him next Bastille Day.

    Hopefully he will post a few photos of his new shed soon

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    Cheers Melbourne is a bit to far for a worn out Gearbox.

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    When I converted my red 404's to BA7/5 I used a 505 wagon transmission tunnel section which was stitched into the 404 floor. This required a 505 wagon rear gearbox mount. The speedo drive is very tight for space. I used a 505 floorshift.
    After driving the standard four speed 404 it is delightful to jump into the other 404 and have that extra, higher ratio to use for quiet cruising.
    IMHO the fifth ratio might be a bit tall for the 1.6 motor on anything other than level or down hill running.

    John

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    Recall that the Ba7/5 which I used had a very beefy looking bell housing with a lot of ribbing/ reinforcement. The column shift components were pruned from the steering column to ease the installation and help it clear that bell housing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bahay View Post
    Recall that the Ba7/5 which I used had a very beefy looking bell housing with a lot of ribbing/ reinforcement. The column shift components were pruned from the steering column to ease the installation and help it clear that bell housing.
    Not to mention clearance for the exhaust.
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    Default Ba7/5

    1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1027.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1028.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1029.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1030.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1031.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1032.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1033.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1034.jpg1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1035.jpg

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    Another pic1969 404 BA7 to BA7/5 Conversion-imgp1064.jpg

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