Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 61
Like Tree73Likes

Thread: Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    299

    Default Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build

    My 504 Berline marathon rally car is finally ready, after more than a year in the making! I had big dreams for this purpose-built car, so two years ago I wrote a wish list for the “ultimate marathon 504” build. The idea was to use all the knowledge and works parts accumulated over the years, plus whatever new parts were necessary, to build the best possible marathon 504 regardless of cost. We decided to adhere to the FIA homologation rules, so the car has an HTP (historic technical passport) which qualifies it to participate in any FIA sporting event. After nearly a decade of building and rallying 504s, and having a works 504 V6 coupe in the shed for reference, we had optimized the engine, drivetrain and suspension, and identified the potential problem areas. The build process was very smooth with no surprises, and the car breezed through its first major shakedown (which quickly turned to an extended caning). Here is a brief summary of what we did:
    Chassis: I have always felt that weight is the enemy, not only because of the power to weight ratio, but also because of handling (inertia) and the beating the chassis and suspension of a heavy car take on gravel. The 504 Berline is not a light car; the showroom stock weighed in at 1280 kg, and the works Safari Berlines at 1370 kg. My 504 V6 works coupe weighs 1270 kilos stripped of a spare wheel, diff protector, and tools (which is how I normally rally it to keep the weight down). For the marathon car we stripped as much weight as we could without compromising chassis integrity and adherence to the rules. All unnecessary components were removed, including some sheet metal, and lightweight materials such as polycarbonate windows were used in place of showroom stock. I was amazed and delighted by the end result: 1142 kg with a full length sump and transmission guard, a differential guard, 75 liters of fuel, two spare wheels, and a full tool kit! The chassis and cross-members were seam welded in key areas, and the rear cross-member and diff top cross-member rubber mounts were replaced by rigid Ertalon mounts. The lighter chassis makes the car feel far more toss able and responsive to corrections than the 128 kg heavier works coupe.
    Engine: We built three engines for this car: A low compression, 123 bhp engine that can tolerate poor quality (around 85 octane) fuel. A second engine, which is now on the car, 158 bhp, but heaps of torque at 2300 rpm, max power at 5300 rpm and runs on standard pump fuel. The performance belies the modest power numbers, the car is very quick; it easily keeps up with 911’s on mountain roads and really shines on gravel. The idea is that this marathon engine should cover 1,000 km per day, for 30 days with only routine service. The third engine is a 181 bhp rally engine that runs on 100 RON fuel and revs 1200 rpm higher than the marathon engine; it is also quite noisy with its side exhaust, but will give ANY car a run for its money on gravel. All three engines have flowed and port-matched heads, custom camshafts (unique to each engine) with matched high performance valve springs and adjustable sprockets, forged pistons (with varying dome volumes), o-ringed liners, lightened flywheels, and annealed copper gaskets. The marathon and rally engines have oversized valves. We went all-out when it came to engine cooling. In ten years of rallying 504’s, the only problems we had (not counting off-road excursions and BA7/5 transmission blow-outs) were from overheating; we either blew head gaskets (hence the switch to annealed copper gaskets) or had to slow down to preserve the engine. We adapted a huge aluminum cross-flow radiator to suit, and we put a venting mechanism on it so the system can be depressurized, and even topped off when hot. Frontal radiator area is 80% larger than stock and coolant capacity more than double. The mechanical fan on the water pump is fixed for constant operation, and there is a thermostat (and switch) activated electric fan. The oil filter has been relocated for maximum cooling, the oil pump is modified to deliver higher oil pressure, and we installed the largest oil cooling radiator we could fit. We replaced the stock grill with a custom-made mesh unit to protect the radiator and oil cooler from debris. This was a lesson learned from experience: Years ago we caught up to the car in front of us in a gravel stage, and stones thrown by its wheels punctured our radiator. The cooling system works great; after 50 km at rally pace, water and oil temperatures were a steady 75 degrees, and the electric fan stayed off the entire time. With the old radiator (standard 504 with a third row added) and nine row oil cooler, the electric fan would be in full operation, water temperature would be at 90 degrees and oil temperature at 100 or more, after such an exercise. The other known 504 problem is a broken alternator belt tensioner (with the ensuing problems), mostly after extended gravel duty. The works cars used two overlapping tensioners, but I noticed that the back one had cracked anyway. We had tensioners CNC’d out of 5mm steel for all the cars and haven’t had a problem since. Another problem with hard-working 504 engines is oil vapor pressure build-up, which eventually leads to oil leaks through the crank shaft pulley; we installed a pressure relief valve on the valve cover to prevent that from happening. All engines have electronic ignition; distributors were dyno re-profiled for each engine. We focused on redundancy: two fuel pumps that can be dashboard-switched on the fly, twin throttle cables, twin ignition coils, twin ignition modules; the objective being to not have to slow down or wait for parts, hopefully for 30,000 km.
    Gearbox and torque tube: The gearbox is connected through a six-paddle clutch and heavy duty pressure plate. We kept destroying BA7/5 boxes so we opted for the far more resilient BA7/4 gearbox and we fully reconditioned one for the task. We also have a BA10/5 from a 505 turbo that can easily handle the torque of the rally engine and provide lower rpm cruising, but this comes with a significant weight penalty so we are sticking with the BA7/4 for now. The driveshaft and torque tube are the heavy duty versions from a 505 turbo. The shifter has been modified to a quick shift unit with much shortened throws. The problematic Peugeot shifter linkages (they have a habit of popping out during special stages) have been replaced with top quality joints on 10-10 steel.
    Exhaust: All stainless steel, dimensions optimized on the dyno (we went through four iterations over the years). Big 4-2-1 extractors, 60 mm exhaust now on the car. We also have a set of 4-1 extractors and a 70mm side exhaust, these give a more peaky engine suited to bitumen rally stages and are intended for use with the rally engine.
    Electrics: We went all out with an aircraft dashboard and wiring loom. All switches, fuses, and relays, including spares, are within easy reach by both driver and co-driver with fuse and relay legend stickers on dash cover and overhead. Rev-counter with built-in adjustable shift light, voltage, water temperature, oil temperature, and oil pressure VDO gauges, 12V/twin USB charging ports, oversized oil pressure light, low oil pressure warning buzzer.
    Front end: This came from our works spares container, and was McLaren-designed for the later 504 V6 coupes. The steering rack is 2.9 turns lock-to-lock. The LCA’s are modified with uniball joints; this allows control of track width and camber. All bushings have been converted to top quality polyurethane. For shocks, we opted to keep the modified works oil inserts rather than use our usual custom Bilsteins. We have yet to find something that works better than the works inserts on gravel, plus, contrary to the Bilsteins, they require very little maintenance (remember that this is a marathon car). We just used the latest technology racing suspension fluid from Silkolene, as we found that the heavy hydraulic oil used by the works team overheats in gravel stages longer than 15 km. We had replicas of the front works springs made with more modern, durable alloys. The works cars used a 26mm ARB, but we found that the 28mm from a 505 turbo performs better, so we switched to that. We matched the ride height of the works coupe, which is 20 mm higher than the production model. Over the years we have found that Berlines with strut tower bars handle better, so we had one custom-made from T5 aircraft aluminum. We also installed custom uniball top mounts with camber adjustment bolts; the stock rubber top mounts are often destroyed on gravel and the strut goes through the hood. All wheel studs have been replaced with longer, stronger 140/15 units modified from a Nissan SUV; the standard 120/12.5 used in the Berline are too short and the thread easily damaged.
    Rear end: From a works 504 V6 coupe, it widens the stock rear end by 55mm (guard lips had to be rolled). Works 4.11, 45/60 limited slip differential with works capped steel mounts. Springs are custom made Eibach. The ones now on the car are for rallying, for marathons they are replaced with taller/stiffer springs designed to handle an additional 100 kg of luggage and spares. The shocks are modified heavy duty triple tube shocks from a two and a half-ton V8 SUV. They look really beefy compared to the standard shocks and they are nine-position externally adjustable to adapt to varying rear load and spring stiffness.
    Brakes and wheels: Braided flexible high pressure PTFE hose (all lines inside the cabin), Tilton seven-position brake proportioning valve. 505 calipers front and rear, EBC Yellow-stuff brake pads. Handbrake modified with a push-button lock pin for either fly-off or standard operation. The car stops exceptionally well with no trace of fade, even after long downhill stages. The entire wheel stock is from 505 models and contains six of the very durable and rare 15 inch steel wheels, four 15 inch aluminum alloy wheels, eight 14 inch aluminum alloy wheels, and four 14 inch steel wheels. Wheel selection depends on the condition and average speeds of the stages.
    Fueling: 77 liter aluminum explosion-proof tank with sump and safety foam. The fuel level sender does not work well with safety foam, so we installed a fuel-level sight tube on the tank. The twin electric fuel pumps are connected in line as this gives a more efficient filtration through the screens, and we felt that at times fuel quality will be questionable. We also installed a glass in-line filter between the tank and the pumps as an additional precaution. Debris will be visible and the filter can be cleaned and re-used. A fuel pressure regulator is mounted on the engine firewall and it contains a water separator. The fuel lines are inside the car, braided, and suitable for ethanol-containing fuels. The carburetors are 45 mm Weber DCOE’s for the marathon and rally engines; the low compression engine uses a double barrel 48 mm Weber IDF on an Argentinean manifold. The marathon and rally engines have 40mm chokes, the low compression engine 36mm chokes.
    Cabin safety: Chromium-molybdenum appendix K roll cage, FIA-approved seat mounts with top hat inserts, automatic and hand-held fire extinguishers. FIA approved seats and harnesses.
    The car will get its next major shakedown next month in the 24 Hours Greece historic rally, about 1000 km flat out in one day (and night) on the rugged and twisty back roads of Greece. I am sure that between now and then more work will be done, even though the car is theoretically finished. My mechanics joke that in my projects “the end” is not followed by a period but by a semicolon!

    Advertisement
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-national-tourism-photo.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-three-quarter-rear-view.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-top-view.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-front-view.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-engine-bay.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-engine-bay-fire-protection.jpg  

    Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-adjustable-top-mount.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-radiator-oil-cooler.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-cockpit-rear-view.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-cockpit.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-control-switches.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-front-seats.jpg  

    Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-instrument-panel.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-manual-fire-extinguisher.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-relay-fuse-legend.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-explosion-proof-fuel-tank-battery-box.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-rear-auto-fire-extinguisher.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-adjustable-control-arms.jpg  

    Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-differential-guard.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-stainless-exhaust.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-full-length-sump-guard.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-seam-welded-swing-arms.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-three-quarter-front-view.jpg  
    Last edited by ThanosK; 3rd September 2015 at 06:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! friday403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Congratulations!

    Marvelous.

    Inspiring.

    (Sings) Simply the best, better than all the rest ....
    ThanosK likes this.

  3. #3
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,261

    Default

    Marathon posting as well!
    You need to bring it out for the Classic Outback Trial in Alice Springs next June.
    6 days of rallying in the outback and much less expensive than the Peking to Paris.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThanosK View Post
    My 504 Berline marathon rally car is finally ready, after more than a year in the making! I had big dreams for this purpose-built car, so two years ago I wrote a wish list for the “ultimate marathon 504” build. The idea was to use all the knowledge and works parts accumulated over the years, plus whatever new parts were necessary, to build the best possible marathon 504 regardless of cost. We decided to adhere to the FIA homologation rules, so the car has an HTP (historic technical passport) which qualifies it to participate in any FIA sporting event. After nearly a decade of building and rallying 504s, and having a works 504 V6 coupe in the shed for reference, we had optimized the engine, drivetrain and suspension, and identified the potential problem areas. The build process was very smooth with no surprises, and the car breezed through its first major shakedown (which quickly turned to an extended caning). Here is a brief summary of what we did:
    Chassis: I have always felt that weight is the enemy, not only because of the power to weight ratio, but also because of handling (inertia) and the beating the chassis and suspension of a heavy car take on gravel. The 504 Berline is not a light car; the showroom stock weighed in at 1280 kg, and the works Safari Berlines at 1370 kg. My 504 V6 works coupe weighs 1270 kilos stripped of a spare wheel, diff protector, and tools (which is how I normally rally it to keep the weight down). For the marathon car we stripped as much weight as we could without compromising chassis integrity and adherence to the rules. All unnecessary components were removed, including some sheet metal, and lightweight materials such as polycarbonate windows were used in place of showroom stock. I was amazed and delighted by the end result: 1142 kg with a full length sump and transmission guard, a differential guard, 75 liters of fuel, two spare wheels, and a full tool kit! The chassis and cross-members were seam welded in key areas, and the rear cross-member and diff top cross-member rubber mounts were replaced by rigid Ertalon mounts. The lighter chassis makes the car feel far more toss able and responsive to corrections than the 128 kg heavier works coupe.
    Engine: We built three engines for this car: A low compression, 123 bhp engine that can tolerate poor quality (around 85 octane) fuel. A second engine, which is now on the car, 158 bhp, but heaps of torque at 2300 rpm, max power at 5300 rpm and runs on standard pump fuel. The performance belies the modest power numbers, the car is very quick; it easily keeps up with 911’s on mountain roads and really shines on gravel. The idea is that this marathon engine should cover 1,000 km per day, for 30 days with only routine service. The third engine is a 181 bhp rally engine that runs on 100 RON fuel and revs 1200 rpm higher than the marathon engine; it is also quite noisy with its side exhaust, but will give ANY car a run for its money on gravel. All three engines have flowed and port-matched heads, custom camshafts (unique to each engine) with matched high performance valve springs and adjustable sprockets, forged pistons (with varying dome volumes), o-ringed liners, lightened flywheels, and annealed copper gaskets. The marathon and rally engines have oversized valves. We went all-out when it came to engine cooling. In ten years of rallying 504’s, the only problems we had (not counting off-road excursions and BA7/5 transmission blow-outs) were from overheating; we either blew head gaskets (hence the switch to annealed copper gaskets) or had to slow down to preserve the engine. We adapted a huge aluminum cross-flow radiator to suit, and we put a venting mechanism on it so the system can be depressurized, and even topped off when hot. Frontal radiator area is 80% larger than stock and coolant capacity more than double. The mechanical fan on the water pump is fixed for constant operation, and there is a thermostat (and switch) activated electric fan. The oil filter has been relocated for maximum cooling, the oil pump is modified to deliver higher oil pressure, and we installed the largest oil cooling radiator we could fit. We replaced the stock grill with a custom-made mesh unit to protect the radiator and oil cooler from debris. This was a lesson learned from experience: Years ago we caught up to the car in front of us in a gravel stage, and stones thrown by its wheels punctured our radiator. The cooling system works great; after 50 km at rally pace, water and oil temperatures were a steady 75 degrees, and the electric fan stayed off the entire time. With the old radiator (standard 504 with a third row added) and nine row oil cooler, the electric fan would be in full operation, water temperature would be at 90 degrees and oil temperature at 100 or more, after such an exercise. The other known 504 problem is a broken alternator belt tensioner (with the ensuing problems), mostly after extended gravel duty. The works cars used two overlapping tensioners, but I noticed that the back one had cracked anyway. We had tensioners CNC’d out of 5mm steel for all the cars and haven’t had a problem since. Another problem with hard-working 504 engines is oil vapor pressure build-up, which eventually leads to oil leaks through the crank shaft pulley; we installed a pressure relief valve on the valve cover to prevent that from happening. All engines have electronic ignition; distributors were dyno re-profiled for each engine. We focused on redundancy: two fuel pumps that can be dashboard-switched on the fly, twin throttle cables, twin ignition coils, twin ignition modules; the objective being to not have to slow down or wait for parts, hopefully for 30,000 km.
    Gearbox and torque tube: The gearbox is connected through a six-paddle clutch and heavy duty pressure plate. We kept destroying BA7/5 boxes so we opted for the far more resilient BA7/4 gearbox and we fully reconditioned one for the task. We also have a BA10/5 from a 505 turbo that can easily handle the torque of the rally engine and provide lower rpm cruising, but this comes with a significant weight penalty so we are sticking with the BA7/4 for now. The driveshaft and torque tube are the heavy duty versions from a 505 turbo. The shifter has been modified to a quick shift unit with much shortened throws. The problematic Peugeot shifter linkages (they have a habit of popping out during special stages) have been replaced with top quality joints on 10-10 steel.
    Exhaust: All stainless steel, dimensions optimized on the dyno (we went through four iterations over the years). Big 4-2-1 extractors, 60 mm exhaust now on the car. We also have a set of 4-1 extractors and a 70mm side exhaust, these give a more peaky engine suited to bitumen rally stages and are intended for use with the rally engine.
    Electrics: We went all out with an aircraft dashboard and wiring loom. All switches, fuses, and relays, including spares, are within easy reach by both driver and co-driver with fuse and relay legend stickers on dash cover and overhead. Rev-counter with built-in adjustable shift light, voltage, water temperature, oil temperature, and oil pressure VDO gauges, 12V/twin USB charging ports, oversized oil pressure light, low oil pressure warning buzzer.
    Front end: This came from our works spares container, and was McLaren-designed for the later 504 V6 coupes. The steering rack is 2.9 turns lock-to-lock. The LCA’s are modified with uniball joints; this allows control of track width and camber. All bushings have been converted to top quality polyurethane. For shocks, we opted to keep the modified works oil inserts rather than use our usual custom Bilsteins. We have yet to find something that works better than the works inserts on gravel, plus, contrary to the Bilsteins, they require very little maintenance (remember that this is a marathon car). We just used the latest technology racing suspension fluid from Silkolene, as we found that the heavy hydraulic oil used by the works team overheats in gravel stages longer than 15 km. We had replicas of the front works springs made with more modern, durable alloys. The works cars used a 26mm ARB, but we found that the 28mm from a 505 turbo performs better, so we switched to that. We matched the ride height of the works coupe, which is 20 mm higher than the production model. Over the years we have found that Berlines with strut tower bars handle better, so we had one custom-made from T5 aircraft aluminum. We also installed custom uniball top mounts with camber adjustment bolts; the stock rubber top mounts are often destroyed on gravel and the strut goes through the hood. All wheel studs have been replaced with longer, stronger 140/15 units modified from a Nissan SUV; the standard 120/12.5 used in the Berline are too short and the thread easily damaged.
    Rear end: From a works 504 V6 coupe, it widens the stock rear end by 55mm (guard lips had to be rolled). Works 4.11, 45/60 limited slip differential with works capped steel mounts. Springs are custom made Eibach. The ones now on the car are for rallying, for marathons they are replaced with taller/stiffer springs designed to handle an additional 100 kg of luggage and spares. The shocks are modified heavy duty triple tube shocks from a two and a half-ton V8 SUV. They look really beefy compared to the standard shocks and they are nine-position externally adjustable to adapt to varying rear load and spring stiffness.
    Brakes and wheels: Braided flexible high pressure PTFE hose (all lines inside the cabin), Tilton seven-position brake proportioning valve. 505 calipers front and rear, EBC Yellow-stuff brake pads. Handbrake modified with a push-button lock pin for either fly-off or standard operation. The car stops exceptionally well with no trace of fade, even after long downhill stages. The entire wheel stock is from 505 models and contains six of the very durable and rare 15 inch steel wheels, four 15 inch aluminum alloy wheels, eight 14 inch aluminum alloy wheels, and four 14 inch steel wheels. Wheel selection depends on the condition and average speeds of the stages.
    Fueling: 77 liter aluminum explosion-proof tank with sump and safety foam. The fuel level sender does not work well with safety foam, so we installed a fuel-level sight tube on the tank. The twin electric fuel pumps are connected in line as this gives a more efficient filtration through the screens, and we felt that at times fuel quality will be questionable. We also installed a glass in-line filter between the tank and the pumps as an additional precaution. Debris will be visible and the filter can be cleaned and re-used. A fuel pressure regulator is mounted on the engine firewall and it contains a water separator. The fuel lines are inside the car, braided, and suitable for ethanol-containing fuels. The carburetors are 45 mm Weber DCOE’s for the marathon and rally engines; the low compression engine uses a double barrel 48 mm Weber IDF on an Argentinean manifold. The marathon and rally engines have 40mm chokes, the low compression engine 36mm chokes.
    Cabin safety: Chromium-molybdenum appendix K roll cage, FIA-approved seat mounts with top hat inserts, automatic and hand-held fire extinguishers. FIA approved seats and harnesses.
    The car will get its next major shakedown next month in the 24 Hours Greece historic rally, about 1000 km flat out in one day (and night) on the rugged and twisty back roads of Greece. I am sure that between now and then more work will be done, even though the car is theoretically finished. My mechanics joke that in my projects “the end” is not followed by a period but by a semicolon!
    ThanosK likes this.

  4. #4
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Lilydale, Melbourne
    Posts
    2,095

    Default

    Amazing.

    Besides the Greece 24 hour, what other events do you plan to enter this car in?
    ThanosK likes this.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  5. #5
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,459

    Default

    Wow! Congratulations on building the car that Peugeot could have (and should have) built. We look forward with great interest to hearing how this car performs in what we hope is a long and very satisfying future - for you and your support team!

    Cheers

    Alec

    PS The 504 I had in 80s - almost stock, but with de Carbon gas shocks and Michelin MXL tyres - was probably still the best dirt road car I've ever owned . So I - & no doubt many others - will be riding with you in our imaginations.
    ThanosK likes this.

  6. #6
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,261

    Default

    Peugeot had to comply with strict regulations, things are a bit freer now, also they didn't have much time to develop the cars.


    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    Wow! Congratulations on building the car that Peugeot could have (and should have) built. We look forward with great interest to hearing how this car performs in what we hope is a long and very satisfying future - for you and your support team!

    Cheers

    Alec

    PS The 504 I had in 80s - almost stock, but with de Carbon gas shocks and Michelin MXL tyres - was probably still the best dirt road car I've ever owned . So I - & no doubt many others - will be riding with you in our imaginations.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Marathon posting as well!
    You need to bring it out for the Classic Outback Trial in Alice Springs next June.
    6 days of rallying in the outback and much less expensive than the Peking to Paris.
    Yes, marathon posting to keep up with the marathon spirit. I was swimming in Marathon beach earlier today as well (really!). The Peking to Paris is not in the cards because we found out that my son Dino (who would be 16 at the time of the rally) is a year too young to cross China according to their regulations. I would love to make it out there for the Classic Outback if the dates work out, Graham, but I think it will make more sense to have a car built there rather than transport one.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    Amazing.

    Besides the Greece 24 hour, what other events do you plan to enter this car in?
    I think just the 24 hours, John. Even for that, one of my other 504s will work out better because of more power, but I want to give it a really good shakedown.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Peugeot had to comply with strict regulations, things are a bit freer now, also they didn't have much time to develop the cars.
    Actually, Graham, other than the forged pistons, Lexan windows, and polyurethane bushings, the car is comprised of pretty much works parts. Oh, and the Owen Wuillemin designed cam and head, they for sure make the big difference.
    Adrian Wuillemi likes this.

  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,261

    Default

    Classic Outback Trial | Special stage rallying around Alice Springs in June 2016. Events for classic and modern rally cars and for regularity.



    Quote Originally Posted by ThanosK View Post
    Yes, marathon posting to keep up with the marathon spirit. I was swimming in Marathon beach earlier today as well (really!). The Peking to Paris is not in the cards because we found out that my son Dino (who would be 16 at the time of the rally) is a year too young to cross China according to their regulations. I would love to make it out there for the Classic Outback if the dates work out, Graham, but I think it will make more sense to have a car built there rather than transport one.
    ThanosK likes this.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,452

    Default

    Jesus H Christ

    ThanosK likes this.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Pug72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    310

    Default

    Looking at this post is not good for me... This is exactly what I would like to do again....... I had a 1976 504 with 604 rear springs, LSD, 40mm front spring spacers and rally tyres. I took this thing places it should not have gone - Cape York, Plenty Highway etc. but the 4wd bug eventually bit me and I sold it and bought a Landrover....

    My 504 that I drive now is too good to strip out, but there is always a dream there...

    Best of luck with it and enjoy your hard work.
    ThanosK likes this.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThanosK View Post
    Actually, Graham, other than the forged pistons, Lexan windows, and polyurethane bushings, the car is comprised of pretty much works parts. Oh, and the Owen Wuillemin designed cam and head, they for sure make the big difference.
    Wow, such a neat rear drive. Great work.
    ThanosK likes this.
    406 HDi

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Thank you all for the very kind comments. I got a surprisingly large number of emails with requests for more info, photos, engine and suspension details etc. I will not give engine details, suspension, and exhaust specifics, as my mechanics consider them trade secrets that they don't want to share. The emails keep coming in so I will wait a few more days and respond to all other requests at once. There was one concern, however, that I will respond to now, because three people contacted me about the integrity of the adjustable lower control arm shown in one of the photos I posted. Here is what I responded to the first email I received, I am posting it in case others have the same concerns.

    The LCA's are original works coupe units and extremely resilient. It appears that the end of the original LCA was cut and the new end was machined into a rod, which was inserted in the very heavy steel sleeve and welded. I am attaching a photo of the unit on the works coupe when I pulled it out of storage in the USA. There were four more sets of these LCA's in the spares trailer so I put them on all my cars. These LCA's have seen more abuse than you can imagine in the past ten years and have not missed a beat. A few years back I had a VERY significant off in the white Berline that necessitated a new chassis rail and bent the caster bar, the front cross member as well as the end of the stub axle that connects to the steering rack. The uniball joint on the LCA was bent at the point where it turns into a threaded bolt, and in spite of that there was very little play in the spherical part. The actual LCA, welds and all, showed no effect from the impact. When we replaced the spherical joint, we found out that it came from a very specialized German manufacturer and cost 140 euro each. We check these joints routinely after each event, we have yet to replace one. I have seen standard spherical joints develop a lot of play after a single gravel stage. I am convinced that the car may be destroyed on impact, but the works LCA will be intact; my machinist said of this LCA after my off "it looks like crap, but works like a tank".
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-car-photos-9-feb-06-039.jpg  
    Last edited by ThanosK; 4th September 2015 at 08:16 PM.
    peujohn, BIGRR and friday403 like this.

  15. #15
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Your knowledge, experience and commitment to your project are inspiring.

    Thank you for sharing them with us

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
    ThanosK likes this.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Posts
    1,751

    Default

    Amazing work. Kudos
    ThanosK likes this.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
    Register your 404: https://recensement.leclub404.com/submit.php

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Dano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    1,259

    Default

    Looks great, well done. All the best with it.
    ThanosK likes this.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Posts
    1,751

    Default

    As an aside, I wonder what your engine specialists would do to maximise the street potential of a KF2 404 engine, while still using KF injection!
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
    Register your 404: https://recensement.leclub404.com/submit.php

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Tippett View Post
    As an aside, I wonder what your engine specialists would do to maximise the street potential of a KF2 404 engine, while still using KF injection!
    The 404 KF injection is not vacuum operated like the 504 KF injection so a bigger cam can be used. So head work to improve flow and increase compression ratio, a cam regrind and extractors/exhaust. Around 110 bhp is easily reached with the method described; pm me if you need specifics.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,452

    Default

    Wait.. not vacuum operated... I thought be design all Kugelfischer injection was.?

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Wait.. not vacuum operated... I thought be design all Kugelfischer injection was.?
    No, the 404 KF and 1.8 liter 504 KF was not. I have a 1.8 liter KF from an early somewhere, I will dig it up and post a photo. The vacuum operation was introduced with the 2 liter 504 models in 1970 and improved fuel efficiency and throttle response. As a point of interest, the KF used in BMW 2002 was also NOT vacuum operated.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,452

    Default

    Well, more reading for me!

    Also, in relation to your suspension and engine settings, I wouldn't worry to much about folk copping you. Most here are cheapskates

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! TassieExec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Devonport Tas.
    Posts
    354

    Default

    Hi Thanos

    Thanks so much for letting us know of your amazing projects and the beautifully detailed reports of what you are doing, they certainly reflect your passion and commitment to rallying Peugeots. As a long time Peugeot lover, particularly some of the older ones, I really enjoyed and was encouraged by your efforts, keep up the good work, I look forward to hearing how it all goes in the rallies.
    Regards
    Neil
    ThanosK likes this.

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    299

    Default

    I got a lot of email and pm questions about the source for the intake manifolds and the performance differences between the DCOE and Argentinean manifolds. The DCOE manifolds for the twin Webers I sourced in Greece, they were custom-made by John Palmos: [email protected]
    He has sold a few dozen of them to AFers who have used them for both DCOE's and QTB's.
    The Argentinean manifold came from OZ, I traded an AFer a DCOE manifold for it.
    The low compression engine with the Argentinean manifold was built to cross Mongolia in the Peking to Paris as the fuel there is around 80 octane. A cam with a lot of overlap was custom designed so cylinder pressures stayed at around 140 psi. A twin IDF carb was used with an Argentinean manifold instead of the twin DCOE's (and a DCOE manifold) to improve the lack-luster low end torque of the low compression engine. (Twin DCOE's give more high rpm power, but lower low rpm torque than the single twin barrel IDF.) Fueling and ignition timing were tricky, but in two days Palmos had it running like a top. The plan was to ship the car to China for the start of the Peking to Paris with this low compression engine and the single IDF, and ship the second engine (the one with the twin DCOE's, now on the car) to a rally stop near the Mongolia Siberia boarder, then change the engine (and take the opportunity to change the clutch as well). Good quality fuel would be available for the rest of the trip and the extra power (35 bhp) would come in handy, especially since we wanted to give these Aussies with their big V8 a run for their money . It sounds excessive, but freight is reasonable, and it takes less that four hours for the engine swap, since everything would be bolted on already and ready to connect to the extractors, the fuel line, and the coil. We were planning this like a military campaign, as our aim was to win the event outright. Now we will have to wait until 2019 for that as the Peking to Paris takes place every three years.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-dsc00278.jpg   Peugeot 504 marathon rally car build-picture-404.jpg  
    Last edited by ThanosK; 8th September 2015 at 05:34 AM.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    HOBART
    Posts
    1,265

    Default

    On what you might say is a minor issue, I love the paint job!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ThanosK likes this.
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •