standard power output for a gti-6? (dyno sheet attached)
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  1. #1
    Member GTi - 666's Avatar
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    Default standard power output for a gti-6? (dyno sheet attached)

    this is a dyno printout from my gti-6 i bought last week

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    figure is a.t.w, does anyone know how this shapes up in the big scheme of things?


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    XTC
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    Not many times you'll get to use that max power .. @ 140kph !!

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTi - 666
    this is a dyno printout from my gti-6 i bought last week

    figure is a.t.w, does anyone know how this shapes up in the big scheme of things?


    by my calcs 91kW = 163hp (flywheel)

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Tadpole
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    Default a.t.w.?

    a.t.w. = at the wheel; that is after all the power losses through the transmission.
    This is the most useful figure in the real world - however it will vary somewhat from dyno to dyno and is very dependent on the set up of the car at the time - tyre pressures, fuel, humidity, etc.
    This gives manufacturers the excuse to use the much higher, but standardised, gross figures that are quoted. Even these may not be all that standard - in the past, perhaps still, American figures - for example - were quoted without any ancillaries - alternator, waterpump, aircon, etc. - while others had some engine driven ancillaries included.
    At least you know what your car develops a.t.w. on a particular day and under particular conditions - which is more than most of the rest of us!
    Have fun.

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    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Welcome to and congratulations on your new GTi6. How many kms has it done? Is it in good knick? Are you in NSW, is that Springwood out Penrith way?

    Thanks for posting the dyno results, that's a useful to post up as a resource. As for it's results, it appears to be fairly normal. As was said before dyno results can be dependent on a variety of conditions.

    Were you using 98 RON? Full synthetic oil?

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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    welcome to AF

    What isnt there is the torque graph. if you ever get a chance to do it, it will bring a smile to your face.

    if you want a comparo, there are few dyno sheets flying around on the Reno forum with Clio's. Jastanis one is also in the shootout mode so you can make a direct comparison. Keep in mind Dynodynamic shootout mode has a "generous" reading by few kW's.
    .
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    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    welcome to AF
    Jastanis one is also in the shootout mode so you can make a direct comparison. Keep in mind Dynodynamic shootout mode has a "generous" reading by few kW's.
    Eh Voytek!? I've never had my '6 on the dyno yet....
    Though I probably should.

    cheers,
    Jude
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The good thing about Shootout mode is that the user can't make adjustments, so it's more reliable when comparing with other Dynodynamics setups.

    There's heaps of torque down low, that's why the power is so fat down low. Compare it with Ky's 1.9L Mi16.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails standard power output for a gti-6? (dyno sheet attached)-bhp-torque1.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Makes the 306 look like a sweet moter 2 drop in a 205.

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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    Eh Voytek!? I've never had my '6 on the dyno yet....
    Though I probably should.

    cheers,
    Jude
    hehe, oww sorry was cruising the parallel universe and got confused

    I meant RCS_20L on this thread Karl's CDA and Dyno
    Last edited by tekkie; 22nd March 2004 at 05:04 PM.
    .
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    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


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    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    hehe, oww sorry was cruising the parallel universe and got confused

    I meant RCL_20S on this thread Karl's CDA and Dyno
    No worries! But hopefully I'll get my act together and get it dyno'd. Just have to find a place in SA that does a good job and doesn't charge like a wounded bull.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

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    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    That's how much power I got out of my not quite crazy 205 Gti, and that's not enough for a Gti6 motor. Doesn't sound it to me. I may be wrong. Using the calculation that I prefer, (from www.pumaracing.co.uk) that power equates to 146 bhp at the wheels. But there is no hard and fast correct extrapolation equation. Not that I know of anyway.
    PeterT; what calculation do you use?

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    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    I agree with Peter.

    Thats how much power at the wheels I have seen other GTi6's make.

    When's that dyno day?

    I want to see how all the cars compare on one day.

    Vic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    No worries! But hopefully I'll get my act together and get it dyno'd. Just have to find a place in SA that does a good job and doesn't charge like a wounded bull.
    TurboTune over on South Rd opposite Castle Plaza have looked after me. Cos I knew the owner's son I got a nice discount too.

    turbopeugeot306 used them too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warwick2
    That's how much power I got out of my not quite crazy 205 Gti, and that's not enough for a Gti6 motor. Doesn't sound it to me. I may be wrong. Using the calculation that I prefer, (from www.pumaracing.co.uk) that power equates to 146 bhp at the wheels. But there is no hard and fast correct extrapolation equation. Not that I know of anyway.
    PeterT; what calculation do you use?
    The theory goes that FWDs lose 10% from flywheel through transmission to wheels, RWDs 20% and 4WDs 30%... But rarely (in this application) does theory agree with reality...

    Answer? Get your car dynoed (usually done in 3rd gear) and compare ATW figures. And ask for your torque curve too as it's what the power curve is solely based on - yes a direct linear (basic mathematical factor (i.e. x) multiplication) relationship!!!

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warwick2
    That's how much power I got out of my not quite crazy 205 Gti, and that's not enough for a Gti6 motor. Doesn't sound it to me. I may be wrong. Using the calculation that I prefer, (from www.pumaracing.co.uk) that power equates to 146 bhp at the wheels. But there is no hard and fast correct extrapolation equation. Not that I know of anyway.
    PeterT; what calculation do you use?
    1kW=1.34hp

    1hp at the wheels also seems to equate to 1.34hp at the flyweel. This has been from known experiences, rather than text books.
    eg

    S2 Mi16
    116kW flywheel = 116 hp ATW = 155hp flywheel

    also

    S1 205 GTi
    75kW flywheel = 75hp ATW = 100hp flywheel

    so, hp flywheel = kW ATW x 1.34 x 1.34

    In the UK they seem to use a factor of 1.4, but I think that's a bit generous. They seem to get some fantastic flywheel figures, from rolling roads.
    Last edited by PeterT; 22nd March 2004 at 06:10 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    In the UK they seem to use a factor of 1.4, but I think that's a bit generous. They seem to get some fantastic flywheel figures, from rolling roads.
    Actually, they're not being generous at all. They're just using a different definition of horsepower (a different 'standard'). There's DIN, EEC, SAE...

    I personally just remember that 75kW = 100bhp (ratio of 1:1.3333333333.................)

    P.S. Aussie S2 Mi16 = 112kW. I posted a list in another thread - straight from official Australian Peugeot tech notes.
    Last edited by 205 GTI16; 22nd March 2004 at 07:05 PM.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 GTI16
    Actually, they're not being generous at all. They're just using a different definition of horsepower (a different 'standard'). There's DIN, EEC, SAE...

    I personally just remember that 75kW = 100bhp (ratio of 1:1.3333333333.................)

    P.S. Aussie S2 Mi16 = 112kW. I posted a list in another thread - straight from official Australian Peugeot tech notes.
    As Darren said, it's a bit ridiculous trying to compare dyno's. Makes good pub talk but that's about all. Did you see how much pressure was in the tyres?

    I thought we used the same standard as the poms! Their figures at the wheels are the similar to ours, but then they derive what I call "high" flywheel figures, from the wheel figures. How can that be? If you have a look at some graphs in 205gtidrivers, you'll notice they're mostly all in flywheel.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Fellow Frogger! kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    As Darren said, it's a bit ridiculous trying to compare dyno's. Makes good pub talk but that's about all. Did you see how much pressure was in the tyres?

    I thought we used the same standard as the poms! Their figures at the wheels are the similar to ours, but then they derive what I call "high" flywheel figures, from the wheel figures. How can that be? If you have a look at some graphs in 205gtidrivers, you'll notice they're mostly all in flywheel.
    The guy that did my dyno said that 115 atw translated into 170 flywheel, which is 1.48. Using 1.34 it's getting 154 at Flywheel. I knew I should have got that pod filter and new exhaust instead Coupled with a frogs sticker I could have doubled the increase over standard and got an extra 20hp

    Ky

  20. #20
    Tadpole
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    Ive had my 306 gti6 engined 205 on the RR.
    Didnt get an Nm figure since they had to get it from my rev counter which isnt working yet.
    My exhaust is killing some power since is is 48mm in contrast to 63mm standard....

    There was also a standard 306gti. Came to 183hp...and 192Nm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails standard power output for a gti-6? (dyno sheet attached)-rfs-uitdraai.jpg  

  21. #21
    Member GTi - 666's Avatar
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    ok first thanks for the warm welcome

    now in now particular order,

    i have the sheet showing the tractive effort (can't really do torque on the dyno effectivley) and yes i smiled

    i was using 95 r.o.n mobil (for want of something better)
    and i am also running kendall gt-1 oil

    yes i live in springwood nsw, you may see the car around but the tags aren't gti-666

    the speed is proportionate to the gear, 3rd gear saw 92.4Kw @ 105kph

    and the ambeint temp was 33 degrees as oppopsed the the 29 degrees entered into the data, hence a lower figure than it should of been but only by a tiny bit.

    the 50 psi tyre pressure was a control pressure used on all 44 vehicles on the day

    and finally the overall results in 4 cyl n/a were....

    1.6 twin cam mx-5 '92 -- 64.7 Kw atw

    1.8 single cam lancer '98 -- 74.2 Kw atw

    2.5 boxer liberty '98 -- 76.5 Kw atw

    2.0 twin cam GTi 6 -- 90.9 Kw atw
    Last edited by GTi - 666; 22nd March 2004 at 10:08 PM.

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