505 Diesel
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: 505 Diesel

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! yawood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT Australia
    Posts
    154

    Default 505 Diesel

    No doubt this topic has been around before, but I'm new to the forum.

    Are there any difficulties in replacing an STi engine with a diesel? Does it have to be from the same year model? What else needs to change with it, e.g. gearbox, wiring loom etc. The car is an '88 model.

    Ta.

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yawood
    No doubt this topic has been around before, but I'm new to the forum.

    Are there any difficulties in replacing an STi engine with a diesel? Does it have to be from the same year model? What else needs to change with it, e.g. gearbox, wiring loom etc. The car is an '88 model.

    Ta.
    well i know it has been done with a 604

    there is a member on this forum that has a 604 that had the V6 removed and a 2.3 turbo diesel and 5spd put in it's place

    there is a bit of work involved but if you had a whole non-redeemable 505 turbo diesel you shouldn't have too much trouble

    it will be time consuming though

    i take you are aware that the STI and diesel engines sit at different angles in the engine bay ?

    now then if this is for the wagon that i see you are interested in you may have to check for legalities and maybe engineers tickets for the change over as i don't think we ever got turbo diesel 505 wagons in this country

    i do know that the 604 in question had a couple of issues even though the engine that was put in the car was less powerfull than what came out of it there was a turbo involved which raised a few eyebrows

    if the owner of the 604 comes online and sees this thread i am sure he may be able to let you know of any issues that you may encounter or may need to know regarding the transplant or he may even email you about it

    if he doesn't see this thread and you wish to have a chat to him i'll ask him if i can pass his email address onto you
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! yawood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT Australia
    Posts
    154

    Default

    Thank you pugrambo. As you surmised,my query is in regard to the wagon that I have expressed an interest in. As I have just started researching this, I must confess that I did not know that the two engines sat at different angles. However, it seems to me that if the same car overseas had the turbo diesel then it should fit. Does anyone know if the turbo diesel was fitted to any right-hand drive 505 wagons anywhere in the world (or only left-hand drive ones)?

    Also my past experience is with 504s not 505s. Anyone care to comment about the 505s ability to do the outback vis-a-vis the 504?

    Any information gratefully received. Thanks.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Young
    Posts
    121

    Default

    I've got a 505 wagon and it goes anywhere!
    Most 4wd owners get gravel rash on their chins when they see where I get to.
    Ground clearance is the biggest draw back.
    I put an sti engine in mine to replace the sli.
    Hell of a job!
    The worst part was sorting out the wiring.
    I had considered putting a diesel in, but it seemed like too much work.
    Beware the Ba10/5 WILL NOT FIT THE WAGON. That is the gear box for the diesel.
    You can make it fit but that would be a job and a half.
    Nothing is impossible it just takes time.
    Do you have an sti engine you wish to dispose of?

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    318

    Default

    As the inspiration for this thread (it's my wagon for sale) I can add some comments as well.

    I've got photos taken 14 years ago on the way to Cape Tribulation. This is around 40km of dirt after the ferry across the Daintree river, and includes three creek crossings. Bits of it were particularly shocking, really greasy pools of mud and the like. On that particular day I was the only non-4wd at Cape Tribulation, and the looks I got from every 4wd owner was the same: How the hell did you get here in that.

    What makes the 505 so good is that underneath it is the same as a 504 wagon, which in turn is basically a 404 wagon. The solid rear axle and torque tube is very tough - I hesitate to say unbreakable because anything can be broken if you try hard enough. Having the driving force applied effectively at the centre of the car (actually the back of the gearbox) gives great balance in slippery conditions like gravel roads. This is the type of dirt road handling that 404s were famous for.

    The 505 is the last of it's breed - you wouldn't do this in a 405 or 406 wagon. Of course, there are limitations. Ground clearance is an issue, and this is amplified as the wheelbase is very long. There will be roads that a Landcruiser will go down paying scant attention to the road that a 505 will, if not carefully driven, hit bottom and do damage to things like exhaust pipes.

    Lastly, I'd compare a 505 wagon to either a 404 or 504 wagon, but with good creature comforts like aircon, power steering and central locking.

    Cheers,

    Barry.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! yawood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT Australia
    Posts
    154

    Default

    Hi Barry,

    In your experience, would you say that the GTI is OK on outback roads and a diesel unnecessary? How much computer control does yours have and have you ever had a problem that was difficult to fix on the roadside because it involved computer control? I'm usually capable of fixing just about anything on the older vehicles (such as my previous 504s) but modern computer control can be a bit difficult if you're away from a service centre.

    I have sent you a PM regarding the other thread so that we can get in touch, thanks.

    Bruce

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    100

    Default

    I would be careful about putting a heavier diesel engine in a petrol body. Again I don't know much about the specifics with these french things but i've seen it done in a hilux and the petrols aren't built strong enough in the front end to carry the diesel.
    Did I read somewhere that the pug diesels have more welds than the petrols and what about the springs/suspension?

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    318

    Default

    I think my memory has been jogged. I'm pretty sure there is a 505 wagon that has had the diesel engine transplant. I remember seeing it at a mechanics in Hornsby - he was doing the conversion for someone as a time filler. Unfortunately the mechanic is deceased, but I think the owner of the car is a Pug spare parts importer in Arcadia. I'll give him a call and ask.

    The drawback I can see is the diesel is heavier, esp. compared to the all alloy GTI engine. As the GTI engine runs on unleaded, fuel availability in the outback should be about the same as diesel. The GTI is LJetronic, a system shared with lots of other cars (major exception is Toyota), and it is well proven to be bulletproof. However, if it does break (and it is most likely to be a sensor rather than the ECU) it would be difficult to fix on the roadside. It is most unlikely to break, but if it does you could get stranded. Is this more likely than diesel problems? I don't know the answer.

    I had a problem once that I was convinced was injection related, even convinced myself it was ECU. Every so often the car would stall as you pull up to a halt. It then started instantly and idled perfectly. Bought myself a Bosch fix-it-yourself injection book. Swapped all kinds of things, including ECU to try and isolate the fault. No go. Then one day it did it again, and on startup idled badly. Opened the bonnet, leant over to open the throttle, moving ever so slightly the belloes air hose from the air box to the butterfly valve. Instant stall. Bingo - this hose had a small split in the bellows that would open enough to upset the air metering when the engine leant on engine braking, hence the stall. Engine leans the other way when you accelerate, so no problem. From that I learned that there are lots of other things to break before injection breaks.

    Barry.

  9. #9
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NORWAY
    Posts
    1

    Icon14

    Hey. My name is John and I live in Norway in Europe. I own a Peugeot 505 with transplanted diesel engine. My broder did the work.

    He is a expert in diesel engine transplant and have done it a lot of times. He have own Peugeot 404, 504 and 604. At this time he driving a Talbot Tagora GLS with Peugeot 505 Turbo Diesel engine.

    Why not send him a sms and ask him what to do with your Peugeot.

    +4793003460 ( mobile phone in Norway)

    He is expert in all troubelshooting with Peugeot 404, 504, 505 and 604.

    He is the best man i know in Norway.

    John_Norway

    Sorry my bad english

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! yawood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT Australia
    Posts
    154

    Icon7

    Thank you John. That might be a very good number to know if I need some help, I'll keep it handy.

    Bruce

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    318

    Default

    OK, spoke to the guy today. He said he has done a number of these conversions, and had no trouble with registration. He imports the turbo diesel engines as well as whole cars. (Wonder if they come from Nigeria?)

    I guess that just leaves the debate as to the merits of such a conversion as the only open question.

    Barry.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! yawood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT Australia
    Posts
    154

    Default

    Having spoken to the guys at the Canberra club night last night I'm having second thoughts about bothering with a diesel conversion. Three reasons:
    1. Everyone seems to think that the 2.2 injected engine is pretty robust and is unlikely to leave me stranded.
    2. A diesel can be a dicey proposition if it hasn't been well looked after - and it's hard to tell just how well an engine has been looked after if you're buying one that's twenty years old.
    3. The conversion is not completely straightforward in a wagon as I'm told the BA10/5 doesn't fit without sheet metal work and I wouldn't want an auto.

    However, I'm still a diesel fan - having had them in the past in other vehicles and it's a shame that the diesel 505 wagon was never sold in Australia.

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,264

    Default

    now this may be something to find out and consider

    in 504 sedans the auto tunnel is bigger than the manual tunnel cars

    is this the same in the 505 sedans and wagons i wonder

    if so then a 10/5 may fit in an auto wagon body if you decided to take the trip into a 505 diesel wagon

    put it another way the 10/5 came out in 505 diesel sedans and the early 505 petrols

    food for thought
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! yawood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Canberra, ACT Australia
    Posts
    154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    in 504 sedans the auto tunnel is bigger than the manual tunnel cars
    Isn't that an incredibly inefficient way to build cars - work out what transmission is to be used and then built the body to suit.

    Maybe that's why they were so good, no shortcuts taken!

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Young
    Posts
    121

    Default

    The size of the tunnel is not the problem. The gearbox will not fit the rear engine mount. The only way is to make your own rear engine mount or, I have been told ,that the very last of the 505 wagons had a different mount that could take the BA 10/5. Finding one of these could be a challenge.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    south australia
    Posts
    225

    Default

    hi guys.i havnt read the whole thread so i may repeat somthing someone else has already said .a few years ago,a customer wanted his sli wagon motor changed to a 504 injected.at that time those motors were too old to be totaly reliable.i ended up putting a 505 sti motor in.i fitted a weber carby so the fuel plumbing was easy.changed the expensive fuel pumps to a basic low pressure facet pump,made up extractors.kept the ingnition.changed the diff to a 604 center and had the axles built up.the speedo was not corrected the first time i test drove it up the freeway but i checked the revs.later when i fixed the speedo i worked out it was doing 145 kph and it wasnt even past half throttle.its been every were that car and has been totaly reliable.its still got the three speed auto but the diff and bigger motor work really well together.oh yeah i changed the rest of the exhaust to a slightly larger one too.see ya.

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Gordon
    The size of the tunnel is not the problem. The gearbox will not fit the rear engine mount. The only way is to make your own rear engine mount or, I have been told ,that the very last of the 505 wagons had a different mount that could take the BA 10/5. Finding one of these could be a challenge.

    can you use a 504 wagon one and turn it around

    that works in 504 wagons to fit 10/5's in
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223

    Default

    But from an engineering point of view it is all wrong!

    Puts the rubber in tension instead of compression, I shudder to think how it would survive if it got oily! And I know about this, removed one of these conversions once...

    Warren... re the 'last model...' mount, no, that won't fit at all. But it can be copied, its principles used to make a mount that will clear the BA10/5 box.

    That particular mount is used because the 4-speed auto ends up further down the tunnel.

    'rambo... there's more to the 504 auto tunnel than just the tunnel... I think it's a whole front floor pressing. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was only for the Borg Warner autos.

    In the meantime, let's get serious about this... there is almost enough room in the tunnel for the BA10/5, minor panel beating would overcome the whole problem.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Young
    Posts
    121

    Default

    I wasn't sure about the later engine mount Ray, I just knew it was different to take the bigger auto. As for fitting the BA10/5 in the tunnel, it fitted in mine no prob' but thats as far as I got when I realised the rear engine mount was not going to work at all.
    The floor tunnel is totally different to the one in the 504/604 Pugrambo, they had a change of style with the 505's and made them multi purpose ( so to speak)

  20. #20
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Gordon
    I wasn't sure about the later engine mount Ray, I just knew it was different to take the bigger auto. As for fitting the BA10/5 in the tunnel, it fitted in mine no prob' but thats as far as I got when I realised the rear engine mount was not going to work at all.
    The floor tunnel is totally different to the one in the 504/604 Pugrambo, they had a change of style with the 505's and made them multi purpose ( so to speak)

    thanks warren

    i have never really played with 505's as they never really did a lot for me

    they were like an inbetween model from the 504 till the new style pugs came out and they never seemed to have the same appeal as the 504 or 604

    for me anyway
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Young
    Posts
    121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    thanks warren

    i have never really played with 505's as they never really did a lot for me

    they were like an inbetween model from the 504 till the new style pugs came out and they never seemed to have the same appeal as the 504 or 604

    for me anyway
    I know what you mean, I always felt the same way until I got this wagon,and I am now converted.

  22. #22
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Gordon
    I know what you mean, I always felt the same way until I got this wagon,and I am now converted.

    my sister had one and even though it was a very very nice 505 it still didn't do a lot for me

    even a lot of the other 505's i have driven still didn't have the same feel on the road as a 504 or the comfort and ride of a 604

    it's not they were an inbetween of the 2 it just didn't feel that way

    that and to me the rear section on the 505 sedan looks very fragile to me

    maybe it's just a personal thing
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •