Stalls at low revs
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930

    Stalls at low revs

    Hi guys,

    was gonna get the 505 serviced this week, but at the moment I'm finding it difficult to get it out of the driveway!

    Since my little rallying adventure on Saturday, it was fed terrible quality LRP in rural Vic, and when we got home had a decent hosing out (degreased the engine too).

    Since then (this has only started to happen over the past 2 days) if the engine revs drop below about 1500rpm the car cuts out and stalls. This means whenever you come to a halt, say at a stop sign, you have to start the car again. My problem is I can't even reverse the car out of the driveway because as soon as you get off the accelerator after starting it just stalls. Once its on the road it runs ok, a bit out of tune though (exaughst sounds a bit off beat and has those little backfire burbles indicating the timing is out).

    basically, I'm hoping someone can suggest what's causing it to stall so I can drive it to the mechanics

    Advertisement


    All the vacuum hoses and dissycap + spark leads are in place as far as I can see, and fiddling with the idle adjust screw on the Solex carb doesn't seem to do anything (although are you meant to do it while the car is running? Its impossible without another person here to hold the engine revs up while someone else is under the bonnet with a screwdriver...)

    cheers folks... blush
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    You've got shit in the idle jet of the carby.
    You'll have to whip the top off, blow the jets out with compressed air and also where they screw into the carb body.
    As your Pug is getting around the age of our CXs and BXs and chances are they have the same plasic kind of fuel lines etc, it may pay you to fit a decent fuel filter between the pump and carby; not the cheap jack Ryco throwaway type, but a decent steel variety, I had one on my old BX when I had similar problems that was made for an EFi Commodore (therrt...spit...cough) and it worked particularly well.
    If you can't DIY, you can try lifting the air filter, revving the engine and suffocating the mouth of the carb; that sometimes works as does pouring a bit of metho into the bowl of the carby which will dissolve moisture if that's what's in the system.
    This is exactly the reason I won't use LRP in my cars. I constantly had these kind of problems when I did which is why I always run on PULP.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Thanks Alan,

    you're an extremely useful person

    I'll try it tomorrow (as it is too dark now).

    Thanks again!!!

    Nick

    PS. I have a filter that has been fitted between the carby and the pump, but it is a plastic Ryco one (fitted by previous owner):

    <img src="http://users.bigpond.net.au/njms_area/engine2.jpg" alt=" - " />

    <small>[ 27 August 2002, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: nJm ]</small>
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  4. #4
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Tried smothering the throat of the carb and accelerating, then raised the idle a bit, so now its quite driveable, will get it serviced tomorrow.

    Thanks Alan
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria
    Posts
    1,003
    If it wasn't for Alan's response, I would have suggested that maybe there's moisture in your distributor cap, especially since you gave your engine bay a hose out.

    My car experienced similar symptoms to yours after I rinsed out my engine bay at one of those high-pressure car washes. I sputtered along to the nearest Bunnings to get some WD-40, and sprayed the underside of the cap (not easy when the dissy is beneath the inlet manifold and you're doing it in the dark mallet )

    It went back to normal after that.
    Good luck with it.

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  6. #6
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    That was one of the first things I checked actually, as I've experienced problems with moisture in the ignition system before.

    thanks for the suggestion though
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,635
    nJm,

    What carby is that on the 505? We've got a webber on our 504. The 504 occasionally has the same problem - especially if you run *really* low on fuel. Did you run low on your rally? The reason is you suck all the dregs off the bottom of the tank.

    The solution is exactly as Alan says, compressed air to clean out the jets and the holes that the jet screws into.

    Sometimes it's happened to us when we haven't had a compressor available (I'm guessing you probably don't have one) so we've made do with a foot pump (or a nice long stroke vertical bike tyre pump) and a tapered plastic nozzle thing you'd use to pump up inflatable swimming pool toys, airbeds etc. Get someone enthusiastic on the pump and it will do the job hopefully... just takes a bit longer than the ol' air compressor!!

    An alternative 'on the fly' solution if your carby has a manual choke is to floor the throttle, and get the revs up nice and high. Pull the choke all the way out and keep your foot on the throttle (watch the smoke out the back!) - do it for maybe (picking a number here) 10 seconds and then push the choke back in and drive normally again. This does similar to Alan's suggestion of suffocating the carby - creates a large vacuum which will hopefully suck the rubbish out of the jets. I'm not too sure on the success rate of that method but it has worked for us before.

    On the PULP - it has detergents in it which keep the fuel system clean

    Derek head_ban

  8. #8
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Hi Deka, my 505 has a Solex 32-25 something carburettor. The smothering effect Alan suggested has worked enough to stop it stalling, so its going in for a service tomorrow.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    396
    Nick,

    Just a short note to let you know that insurance companies don't like those plastic filters being in a "high" pressure area (i.e. between the pump and carby). If you have an accident, and they inspect the car and find this, they most likely won't pay up.

    I've never heard of anyone actually having problems with them leaking, when mounted like this, but I've never found anything wrong with them mounted just before the pump either, so I continue to mount them just before the pump.

    Dave

    P.S. I think your car could benefit from a hose "audit". Way too many hoses for my liking. I'll have to post a pic of my 2 litre 505 engine, with minimum number of hoses.

    <small>[ 28 August 2002, 07:04 AM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>

  10. #10
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Hi Dave,

    thanks for the advice about the plastic filter. I had no idea that the insurance companies wouldn't like it eek!

    As for a hose "audit", well that sounds great to me! Its quite hard doing anything on it with the hoses getting in the way, although due to my limited experience and knowledge I have no idea which ones I can remove.

    Thanks again,

    Nick

    ps. here is another view of the engine, just incase you see anything else that should be done (appart from a clean!)
    <a href="http://users.bigpond.net.au/njms_area/engine1.jpg" target="_blank">http://users.bigpond.net.au/njms_area/engine1.jpg</a>

    <small>[ 28 August 2002, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: nJm ]</small>
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,635
    I can see you're missing the warm air intake valve (not exactly sure what you'd call it!) but the thing that picks up air off the exhaust when the engine is cold. It screws on the front of the air cleaner.

    You don't really need it in Australia - the one on our 504 hasn't worked for I don't know how long. It's just not cold enough in Australia to need one.

    Those high tension leads don't look particularly neat, or even original. They're all the wrong lengths... the one going to each cylinder should be long enough to just make it back to the distributor.

    Derek

  12. #12
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    The warm air thingy is sitting in my boot. The little nuts that held it on must have got loose and fallen off, as I heard this horrible sound one day only to find the box sitting ontop of the radiator fan...

    I haven't noticed ANY difference without it on in winter in Melb so I guess it isn't needed.

    yeah, the HT leads are pretty old now, will replace them.

    Got the car serviced today. They found these things:
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">castor bar bushes are worn
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">outer tie rod ends worn
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">front muffler mount is broken
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">clutch slave cylinder is leaking
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">engine mounts are perished and cracked
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">also still has non-functioning rear brake callipers and I still haven't got new tyres, so as soon as I get them I'll get the worn suspension stuff done.

    <small>[ 28 August 2002, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: nJm ]</small>
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! R17G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    329
    The brother in law has an 81 505GR Manual. He tells me it does 500km per week. Problem is he is only getting about 5000 km out of it before it requires another tune. He is wondering if it is worth putting an electronic ignition on it. And will this help him get greater distances between services? Suggestions?
    A Gordini is still a GORDINI!!!

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    DeKa:
    I can see you're missing the warm air intake valve (not exactly sure what you'd call it!) but the thing that picks up air off the exhaust when the engine is cold. It screws on the front of the air cleaner.

    You don't really need it in Australia - the one on our 504 hasn't worked for I don't know how long. It's just not cold enough in Australia to need one.
    Famous last words!!!
    At the risk of starting a 50 string posting complete with the tables & chairs getting thrown around the room, mallet whip that is something that I've proven wrong.
    My first BX had a 1.6 litre engine & used to get fuel consumption that would make the average wank tank pedalling bitumen warrior/explorer cringe eek! Around 14.5 L/100klms.
    When I made enquiries I was told the BXs were "not all that good on fuel consumption ya know" by quite a few. Eventually I was told by a guy I knew at Repco, to phone a guy in Brisbane who was a Weber carb specialist and did a reasonable price reco job. When I rang, he just told me basically that the model Weber in my car was not one he has a real lot to do with so couldn't tell me when he'd get around to reco-ing mine but asked the story on it.
    First question he asked was "is the hose connected from the hot box to the air cleaner?" When I said no, he said that was always the first place to start as the basic settings on the carb were done taking that into allowance. He commented that they always seem to want to take them off for this 'not needed' reason but if it 'wasn't needed' it wouldn't be there in the first place. I have since read in Haynes a similar thing. In the case of an Auto-choke it is even more important. I followed his advice and bought a new hose from hot box to thermostatically controlled diverter flap (as exists on a BX TRs) and did a couple of other things and the result was 7.3 L /100 klms on a trip and 10 around town.
    As a footnote: It was interesting to get a call from the buyer a short while afterwards who told me that her "specialist" had 'fixed' the carby as I had the jets in back to front and that the fuel consumption was nowhere near as I'd quoted (even though I'd shown actual figures from trips.) Besides playing with the jets he'd also "taken that hose off that runs from the exhaust to the air cleaner" because they don't need it up here in Queensland ...some mothers do have 'em. roll_lau

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,527
    R17G, what's the reason for the short distance between tunes? Pitted points? If so, a new condenser may help, plus check that the coil is the right one for the car (either resistor type or not). Should be fine then. Electronic ignition is great if you don't mind spending the money, but a well maintained points system is fine. The main benefit occurs if the distributor has worn bushes, the electronic ignition (I'm talking about breakerless ignition) isn't affected by the wear. With points, the timing can scatter a bit around the right setting because of the movement of the spindle. If your brother's problem is the plugs fuzzing/oiling, check that they're the right ones, and tell him not to use LRP fer chrissake! It's crap. BTW the electronic ignition will help if your plugs are regularly dirty, but it's best fixing the problem.

    Otherwise, what is his reason for the short sevice interval...?

    Cheers

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  16. #16
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    My 505 is the same. It has to be tuned up every 5000kms, otherwise it runs quite rough and you definately notice a drop in performance.

    The mechanic I use says they are just like that - very sensitive engines that go out of wack easily. When new the service interval was 7500kms. He also said he knows of a guy who took a 2L carb 505 to Tassie on the boat, and with all the up and down movements when he got the car off the boat in Tassie it was completely out of tune! eek!
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    314
    Hey njm,

    A tip I picked up from having a car with a crappy fuel tank that left deposits in the line- switch a couple of the spark plug leads over. It does much the same thing as Alan suggested. Basically it farts back through the carb and moves the bits of crap that can be blocking your jets. It's very much a roadside fix, but it should be enough to get it running so you can make it to the garage. (Once its 'farted' whip you put the leads back on and it should be as normal!!)

    Interesting about the 'hot air'- pipes Alan, I guess this would more apply to pipes/setups with electronic thermostats and the like (on more modern cars with more spohisticated setups?)

    For example on the 17 they have a pipe to pull hot air with a summer/winter flap (altered by hand)- do you think that could have the same effects?

    Ben

  18. #18
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Could any pug owners confirm what Alan said about the warm air box? Does not having it on a 504/505 have any implications?

    ta.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  19. #19
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    "Interesting about the 'hot air'- pipes Alan, I guess this would more apply to pipes/setups with electronic thermostats and the like (on more modern cars with more spohisticated setups?)"

    Ben,

    I've found it more applicable to a lot of the cars produced before they all started going hi-tech. The BX that I had the experience with was an '86 model. I also found it worked on some Jap thing that a mate of one of my sons had. I think it was a Cordia. I am on quite a few boards overseas & they are all now starting to repipe this hotbox up due to a variety of problems that were created by it not being operative.
    My argument with disconnecting things like this is that when designed, a lot of money and expertise goes into design & manufacture; typical example being that PSA reportedly spent around 865 million UK Pounds at Slough to go into production of the XM. Now in my book, if a company is going to spend that sort of money on one model, thet aren't simple enough to design a car that will only operate successfully in Norther Europe & nowhere else when they export Worldwide. Some of the southern European countries and Asian nations have climates easily as hot as we experience here so really, that argunebtt about not requiring them out here is a nonsense.
    Also, if you check the service manual either on the car or the carby (in the case of a Weber carb for sure, Solex I can't confirm but they are both fairly similar) they constantly refer to things such as "enrichment capsules" which compensate thermostatically for cooler running. These have absolutely no connection whatsoever with the auto chokes fitted to some models nor are they instead of, they work in conjunction with which is why as I stated in the initial posting, the ambient temperature within the carb and surrounds is important and why if you see some of the advanced service info, they advise a thermometer under the bonnet in the region of the carb and certain adjustments made to allow for temp varience above or below 20 deg C hwen doing the initial settings. Removing this hose simply throws these adjustments out of calibration by causing an inconsistent temperature and allowing it to fall way below its desired figure on cold or wet days.
    Think that's got it dance cheers! whip eek!

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  20. #20
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Thanks for the run down on the warm air intake Alan

    I'd stick mine back on, except I've lost the nuts that held it on, and I also found in the boot what looks like the mechanism that controlled the little flap in the hot air box (wasn't attached when I bought the car). I might go down to a wreckers next weekend and pick up another hose though, mine is in pretty bad condition.

    Thanks for your wise words of wisdom yet again

    Cheers cheers! ,
    Nick
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    396
    nJm:
    My 505 is the same. It has to be tuned up every 5000kms, otherwise it runs quite rough and you definately notice a drop in performance.

    The mechanic I use says they are just like that - very sensitive engines that go out of wack easily. :
    This goes totally against my experience with the pushrod Pug engines. Maybe it's symptomatic of those fitted with anti-pollution equipment, the solex TMIMA carby and the later types of Ducellier distributors.

    The earlier engines with a manual choke, Ducellier M48 distributor, no anti-pollution equipment, and no cold air pipe, seem to go just as great when out of tune as when in tune. the only difference being is that when out of tune they are hard to start on a cold morning, whereas when in tune they fire instantly (after pumping the accelerator 2 times).

    My suggestions are:
    -do a hose audit
    -ditch the Solex TMIMA for either an early Solex SEIEA (if you can find one without too much wear in the butterfly shafts), or a Weber
    -fit a brand new M48 dissy
    -use NGK or Bosch spark plugs
    -fit good quality spark leads (or copper cored ones, if you don't have a radio)

    In my experience your engine should then run great, with economy in the 9.5-11 litre per 100km range on the highway, and 11-13 in the city, while being capable of pulling atleast 6500rpm without protest.

    They got this basic engine design right in the late model 404, and any of the extras they added to the exterior of the motor on later models just detracted from its excellent reliability.
    They always seem to go best when returned to a simple spec. I just got my simplified 505 running the other day, and it looks like a 404 under the bonnet and runs sweet as.

    Dave

    <small>[ 31 August 2002, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,635
    Alan,

    Interesting to read what you said - it was the previous owner of P504 Services in Sydney who said not to worry about fixing the warm air intake.

    The economy of the 504 is reasonable... about 9L/100km on the highway with 5 of us in it and luggage, and about 12-13 in the city. It is an auto though.

    It improved remarkably when we reconditioned the carby. It's had a Webber of some sort since we bought it, that P504 put on it because apparently it's much easier to tune.

    I don't know that much about our 504 though - unfortunately it just sits in the carport most of its life now I do know it always starts first go, even on dead cold winter mornings and as long as you use the choke it drives perfectly, even from cold.

    Derek

  23. #23
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Hi Dave,

    I'm not actually sure which hoses I can get rid of, is there anything in the Haynes manual? The TMIMA carb has to stay for now, I don't have any free time or spare cash. What would be a better choice though, Weber or Solex SEIEA?

    How much would a new M48 dissy cost? Also, where do you recommend I buy new spark leads? Regan's said they can get a box set for my car, so it would be whatever Peugeot specify I'd imagine?

    thanks,
    Nick
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  24. #24
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,278
    M48 Distibutors are $150 at European Auto Imports, Box Hill.
    I fully agree with Dave's advice.
    My carby 2.2 STI is running better since I changed the cam belt and fitted a Solex SEIEA. It is extremely tractable and will pull up hills at 1800 rpm in 5th with a full load.
    Second barrel operation is not right, however,I must get an exhaust gas analyser and see what it is doing.

    Graham Wallis
    Regards Graham Wallis

  25. #25
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    That sounds very impressive! Mine tends to stuggle below 2400rpm on hills.

    Where whould I find an SEIEA carb? Would I need to get one off a recked pug, or could I just go to a parts shop and ask for one? If I need to get one off a car, which model/year of pug were they fitted to?

    thanks in advance!

    Nick
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •