205 GTi starting issue
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Thread: 205 GTi starting issue

  1. #1
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    Default 205 GTi starting issue

    Hi guys,

    I did have a brief search online, but could not find the solution, so I hope the brains trust here can help. My series 1 205 gti has been driven about 400 kms in the last week, and I went to start it tonight, no start.

    Battery is connected, all lights, fans, windows, etc work as before. I can hear the fuel pump at ACC, and when turned to start, but the car does not make any attempt to turn over. I think starter motor is on its way out, but does the ECU (jetronic) have any input into the engine cranking over?

    Or anything else I can check. Need to get it running soon. The missus will find a scrappy to pick it up, if it sits in the driveway too long.

    Thanks,

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    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! craigos's Avatar
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    Could be a weak signal going from the ignition to the starter. Mine used to do it intermittently and progressively became worse. I ended up taking the positive wire off the starter and running it straight to the positive terminal of the battery, out to a relay which I tucked into the black box behind the headlight, then back out with an inline fuse to the positive terminal on the starter.

    I had this issue on and off for the whole time I owned the car up until this little fix. Quite a common issue from the research that I did at the time. It was not sudden like your experience though.
    White 1989 205 Gti-RS.
    Sorrento 1993 205 Gti.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Not an old immolbizer anywere under the dash is there ie behind steering wheel area???...



    1990 Renault 5 GT turbo
    ####current rides####
    1994 205 gti 1.9 sorento green
    1988 205 gti 1.9 uk import grey
    2001 clio 172 sport ph1 #44/85
    1998 306 gti6. Blaze yellow
    1992 Honda Fireblade
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  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! craigos's Avatar
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    Correction on that before I get flamed. Positive into relay from starter. 12v feed from battery to relay. Someone on here can probably explain it better than I can.
    White 1989 205 Gti-RS.
    Sorrento 1993 205 Gti.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gezza View Post
    Not an old immolbizer anywere under the dash is there ie behind steering wheel area???...
    Thanks Gezza, I have looked there in the past, and could not find any extra wiring that suggested an immobilizer, but will check it again. Wouldn't the immobilizer stop the fuel pump as well?
    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigos View Post
    Could be a weak signal going from the ignition to the starter. Mine used to do it intermittently and progressively became worse. I ended up taking the positive wire off the starter and running it straight to the positive terminal of the battery, out to a relay which I tucked into the black box behind the headlight, then back out with an inline fuse to the positive terminal on the starter.

    I had this issue on and off for the whole time I owned the car up until this little fix. Quite a common issue from the research that I did at the time. It was not sudden like your experience though.
    Thanks Craigos,
    I understand what you mean, all good. Used relays and fuses to replicate the current ignition system, will test for that tonight.
    I guess a multimeter should be sufficient to show it, and as you showed, I could probably rig something up to at least get it started and home.
    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Not always as they just kill they ignition...



    1990 Renault 5 GT turbo
    ####current rides####
    1994 205 gti 1.9 sorento green
    1988 205 gti 1.9 uk import grey
    2001 clio 172 sport ph1 #44/85
    1998 306 gti6. Blaze yellow
    1992 Honda Fireblade
    2013 Yamaha fzs sho Jetski
    1998 Supra RZ twin turbo white
    1999 Wrx classic gc8 sonic blue



  8. #8
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    Aha. Thanks for that, will keep an eye out for it.


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    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  9. #9
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    Sounds like starter motor/solenoid issues to me if starter is not engaged at all.

    From Haynes manual
    Engine fails to rotate when attempting to start

    Battery terminal connections loose or corroded
    Battery discharged or faulty
    Broken, loose or disconnected wiring in the starting circuit
    Defective starter solenoid or switch
    Defective starter motor
    Starter pinion or flywheel ring gear teeth loose or broken
    Engine earth strap broken or disconnected

    The ECU does get a signal via the ignition switch when cranking, but this is about starting fuel enrichment.

    griffo
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  10. #10
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    Well checked battery terminals, but getting to the starter motor is like pulling teeth. Will keep trying.


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    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  11. #11
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    Ok, got volts onto the main terminal of the starter, and switched volts when the ignition turns to start, but still no engine turning over. There is no earth strap, the engine is earthed, 0 ohms between engine and battery, so i conclude starter motor stuffed. Any idea how much a new one is?


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    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! craigos's Avatar
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    $220 from eai on eBay.
    White 1989 205 Gti-RS.
    Sorrento 1993 205 Gti.

  13. #13
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    Awesome, thanks craigos. Got one more test to do tomorrow, hard wire the damm thing, and if that fails, I will put a new one in. Looks like a right pain to get to, but it had better move soon, between that and the seized seat belt (another tale of woe), this pug is wearing thin.


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    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! craigos's Avatar
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    I would take the rad/fan assembly out for the starter replacement. Take the opportunity to clean up the front of your motor and check it all out while your there.
    White 1989 205 Gti-RS.
    Sorrento 1993 205 Gti.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    what a nightmare. Surely the intake manifold is enough to get you access to the front of the engine. You need to remove it anyway to get to the starter

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Make sure you get new intake manifold gasket too :-)
    FedGrapes likes this.



    1990 Renault 5 GT turbo
    ####current rides####
    1994 205 gti 1.9 sorento green
    1988 205 gti 1.9 uk import grey
    2001 clio 172 sport ph1 #44/85
    1998 306 gti6. Blaze yellow
    1992 Honda Fireblade
    2013 Yamaha fzs sho Jetski
    1998 Supra RZ twin turbo white
    1999 Wrx classic gc8 sonic blue



  17. #17
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    I did the BX (1.9L 8V) starter recently, and I went in through the manifold. Took about an hour to get to the starter (I'd been there before), and then after another 2-3 hours she was back on the road. As above, a new manifold gasket is a good idea.

    I also did the S16's starter a while ago, and went the same way; manifold out. I found the S16 took longer to do, but at least I didn't have to remove any injection gear.

    Good luck.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    The problem is not that bad. Both considerations are valid, it can be the wiring running out of puff or the starter kaputt. Either way, I understand that sooner rather than later the ignition switch fails (electrics) and the fix is a relay.

    If the starter is kaputt, it's not that difficult to recondition, and you can do it with ordinary tools. You might need to find some brushes and a nice machine shop to take a skim off the comm if it's too badly worn. The rest (bearings, rectifier, etc) are not difficult to find/replace.


    Did you try to bump start it?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  19. #19
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    Thanks Schlitz,
    Got my brothers coming over tonight to try bump start it, at least that will buy me time to get it fixed. And where it goes, it will have access to a hoist and decent tools, so at least replacement should be made simpler.

    Thanks to all who have assisted, may have a go at the reconditioning of the starter motor, but certainly want to get it fixed.
    Too much fun to leave in a paddock all winter!
    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  20. #20
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    If the starter is well grounded and jumping the start terminal direct from the battery +ve does nothing at all then the solenoid has to be bad, and that might be all that's wrong. A shame to replace the whole starter if you can get by with just a solenoid. OTOH, it is good to have a spare -- just to be sure that the starter never goes wrong again.

    Have fun,

    Rob.
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  21. #21
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    Thanks rob, I put it all back together, ready to push start it; thought bigger it, one last try, and of course, with a crowd around, it made a liar of me and started. Still more investigation required, but at least it is out of the way for now.

    Thanks to everyone for their help.


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    Michael



    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI
    Build Thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...ti6-build.html

  22. #22
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    Have you checked the connections to and from the ignition coil/tried a new coil? Also your module
    1990 205 GTI

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