New 406 HDI owner
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Default New 406 HDI owner

    I've messed about for ages looking for a 406HDi wagon, but after missing a decent one recently, I've just bitten the bullet and bought a magnificent blue 2003 manual sedan - having sold an 09 petrol version only last year. I don't have the car yet, but she's a completely original one owner fully garaged car, and judging by all the photos, complete and full log book, and rare colour (Samarkand Blue) I am totally over the moon. She's interstate, so there's a very nice road trip to look forward to in the next few weeks as well.

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    Any thoughts on these HDi's is much appreciated. I know of several guys that tell me these are much nicer to own than the petrol's, and I did hear that the diesels had slightly firmer suspension but I don't know if that is correct or not. I'll be on the hunt for an OEM set of roof racks if anybody has a set, and am interested in any tips / pointers on 406 manual Hdi ownership that anyone cares to share.

    I now have a ridiculously mint low klm N5 GTi-6 that will stay in the shed... or be sold (if the Wife gets her way).

  2. #2
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    G'day Adam. Is the 406 instead of a 504? Good luck with it, I've driven a couple and they are lovely.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Hi John,

    No the 406 is NOT a replacement for the 504. Reason for buying is I sold my 406 last year (petrol) and since then have been looking for a nice HDi. That car popped up last week, and given what you get in these cars for the money, I bought it site-unseen! I am still on the hunt for a V-good 504, which I will find, in time.

    Note the photo in my Avatar in my in my last 504, the same car as your Avatar!

    Cheers

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Update folks,

    Flew to Toowoomba on friday to collect my 'new' Samarkand Blue 2003 406 Hdi Manual. The car is in immaculate condition with only 187,000klms on it. Full log books and one careful owner too, meant generally speaking it was in pristine condition. I immediately drove the car 725klms from QLD to Forster on the NSW central coast, and aside from the errant Kangaroo that jumped in front of the car at night, it was faultless. The cig lighter was not receiving power for the phone charger, but a quick glance found me a broken fuse and that problem was resolved. All other electrics / functions are perfect.

    Today I spent the day cleaning the car - used WD40 Citrus Engine foaming cleaner and a paint brush to great effect, and cleaned door cards, and a general get to know session. There's barely a mark on the car, wheels / body / paint are 9+/10. Car has been garaged it's entire life and the evidence is clear.

    I am looking for a new LHS Valeo Fog lamp (or tidy used one) for the one that the Roo 'smashed', and aside from a new key fob, leather steering wheel cover and a new pollen filter (appears to have the original in it still), it appears to be perfect. Suspension bushes are tight as a drum, and despite giving her a very good shove along the New England Highway, ride and handling were as if the car was new.

    One thing I did notice was the slower acceleration times, and not having owned an HDi before, I noticed the most torque coming in at ~2500-3150rpm or so. I'm not sure if the engine timing / tuning is perfect, but I will get it fully serviced at PQAM in the next few weeks or so. On the HWY, I could very comfortably cruise at 130++ and admittedly pushing the car pretty hard in parts, the computer is telling me ~1,200klms from one full tank - with a bottle of Caltex diesel fuel system flush. I was asking myself if a chip actually works (and what does it do?), and if I need it. Only reason for saying it was a slight lack of punch on overtaking.

    Any comments / advise greatly appreciated, however i'm loving this car... its a beauty.

    Adam

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I have 3 x 406 hdi manuals
    I do over 60Kkms a year
    They are a fabulous car
    The ride is not as supple as my C5 but the build quality compared to my Xantias is greatly superior
    Apparently they come from the same facility
    The 15 inch wheels give a softer ride than the 16 inch and the earlier D9 gear change is a little smoother than the locked out reverse one
    Lots of luck timing your diesels
    And re chipping is a waste of time
    You can get more power but at a fuel cost
    I got 1450 on a trip to Adelaide and I didn't spare the horses

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by acf321 View Post
    One thing I did notice was the slower acceleration times, and not having owned an HDi before, I noticed the most torque coming in at ~2500-3150rpm or so. I'm not sure if the engine timing / tuning is perfect, but I will get it fully serviced at PQAM in the next few weeks or so.
    Peak torque is mostly flat from 1500-2200 rpm, and then factory (chip) tuned downward from there as revs increase. You'll lose a lot of power when the turbo lifts off through slow gear changes or being below 1800rpm, acceleration is best from 2500rpm and up. It might take a while to get used to the hydraulic clutch, as you can shift with just the slightest of presses but there is little to no feel in the pedal to indicate.
    406 HDi

  7. #7
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    Hi Adam

    re. performance - the problem may just be that you are not accustomed to what is normal for this car. However if it car has been babied as much as you say, it may have some carbon build-up & just need more hard running to clean it out. In fact it may never have really run-in properly if it has just been gently pottering about, in which case will gradually improve over the next 30,000km!

    Further on carbon build-up; your model definitely doesn't have a particle filter, but it does have an EGR valve and a Cat - either of those could be partially blocked. Hard running probably won't help if either of those has a problem...

    Cheers

    Alec

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    The power characteristics you describe sound about right to me, although I can say that as the injectors wear out you will loose top end power over about 3000rpm.
    I'm not saying that your injectors need replacing, but when you do you will definitely notice the difference.

    On the point on a partially blocked cat. I'd like to test that out one day because the turbo lag on my 306 Hdi is definitely longer then when I first bought it, and I've long suspected this could be the culprit.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    Will a spray with ERG cleaner improve/clean a carbonised ERG valve and area?

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Thanks folks for that. I better experienced the car today when i thought 'is this it?' going over the gladesville bridge in Sydney. Its a steep incline, but i remember my 2.0 406 screaming up there like a cut snake. The 406 just chugs up the same hill, and I had the thing flat in fourth at about 60kph .... I do think that there is certainly a learning process, as my other car is a wild little 306 GTI6, and as I said, the 406 petrol was a screamer (but quiet a fair bit less civilised by comparison). I am sure there is nothing wrong with this Hdi, so I will learn it's ways, have the injectors inspected and a general once over by a Pug specialist. I did notice that the prior owner did not use a specialist Pug mech, however to be fair it does have the correct Purflux oil filters, so he was obviously meticulous.

    Having said that re the bridge, on the way home from QLD there was a stretch where the speedo read the same as that on the bridge, except for an errant '1' that appeared to stand in the way... there was absolutely no problem there, but again I did notice an unwillingness to accelerate in any meaningful way above 130, so I thought that odd. Surely a well tuned 406Hdi should willingly pull very hard beyond 130 on the flat fwy right? I remember driving a new 206 Diesel on the German autobahn in 2003, and that little thing sat EASILY at 180KPH all day long, literally. That was the Pug that made me think very differently about diesels. I would have thought the 406 would have done the same, but this one has a small reason for not wanting to do so.

    Cleaning the engine and using a little vinyl spray shine really brought it up to literally new condition. I was shocked.

    I'll keep you posted on this, there is a lot of water to pass under the bridge on this car, it's an absolute treat to look at and sit inside.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    As the owner of two of these great cars ( 600K+ and 490K ) I was thinking of looking at that on in Toowoomba, but did not act quickly enough - so good luck with it. However I think the torque question needs looking into. When we got the 'younger' of our two 406's, it did not respond until the revs were around 2500 to 3000, as you describe. We discovered that the Turbo and been isolated or restricted in some way and this was rectified by Peugotech in Brisbane, after the ( then) dealer in Dubbo couldn't find out wheat was the cause.
    I say this because, once it is working properly, the question of acceleration is never a problem for me. Only thing is to keep the car in the 2k-3k rev range for best performance, but anything above 1.5k rpm should give reassuring power in most circumstances. I say this believing that if you wanted a livelier car you should have bought the V6.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    .... continued. Before we had the turbo fixed we were overtaken on the Moonbi hill by a heavily laden 4wd - absolutely no peer, and even down to 3rd gear. Now it will cargo up there in 5th/4th at whatever speed you choose. We often travel north on the Newell, and overtaking a truck from 80km/hr does not require a downshift, just plant the foot and you will be up around 130-140 as you pass. (sometimes 150 - it is all just the same inside the car).

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Hmmmm .....

    what you describe is NOT what I am experiencing. I was choofing along on 5th at 110 on the flat, went to overtake and planted the floot flat .... wait, wait, wait, wait .... nothing. Dropped a cog, she dropped to about 2150 from memory, then... wait, wait, wait, wait, 2850 and a somewhat athletic lurch forward to 3150 or so... a few prayers, and then I just nudged in front of the car!!!!

    I thought... this is not right. It WILL do 100mph on the fwy, but its a long planned and well thought out adventure to get there. Beyond that I feel there is no hope. I was actually wondering to myself why the speedo reads 230+ km/h when the car will only do 160 flat chat... down hill.... with a tail wind !!!!

    Again, it's a gorgeous car ... almost new in every single respect.. just the VROOM needs looking at.

    On this, who would you recommend to take it to in Sydney for this kind of specialist work????

  14. #14
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    It seems you can't go wrong with this mob! (no personal experience):

    Colliers Auto

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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Yes, thanks Guys. Colliers do appear to have a rock solid reputation. On another note, I spoke to Alan Goodwin today from Cessnock and he consulted with Malcolm (also both Gentlemen and VERY helpful over the phone). I really want to take the car there, but getting there is difficult, not to mention the wait while the car is being done. Having said that, Alan & Mal reckon; 1) there's nothing wrong with the turbo, 2) its very likely either a fowled Air Flow meter (i think that is a MAF?), or missing hose somewhere near to the oil filter, or 3) fowled exhaust, which they say can and does happen with Diesels. Alan said that a good 406HDi 'pulls like mad', so I am looking forward to having her dealt with very shortly.

    Gotta say, the Samarkand Blue is gorgeous to look at - but then, i'm biased. Will show you at the AFCD in July!

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
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    What you describe is EXACTLY what I experienced - seemed perfectly OK on the flat at any speed, but did not respond for overtaking - no matter which gear you were in, until the revs were around 2800. What Peugeotech found was that the turbo air flow had been deliberately restricted - possibly to keep noon younger drivers under control. Both my cars now drive as expected, and overtaking does not require changing down except when there is a reasonable hill.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Ahhh ... very interesting. I did not know before I bought the car and did not ask, but this HDi is a one owner car of a Gentleman that had a young'ish Son that might recently have been at the L plater age. I just wonder if he had it restricted in some form. Today I tried again, stood on the pedal and counting 'one one thousand' 'two one thousand' and then so on.. and then just a very muffled and little rush from about 2850 to abt 3150 and then nothing ....

    Gotta get this thing to the Pug Doctor!! Thanks for the feedback Gents, I will keep you posted.

    Adam

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    You can easily clean the MAF grid (it's easy to remove) with a spray of cleaner eg.CRC MAF Sensor Cleaner
    But, and can someone comment on this - can you clean the ERG valve by spraying in an ERG cleaner with the engine running at higher revs? Any damage likely?
    I know it won't be as good as removing the valve and cleaning it by hand.
    Last edited by andrepug; 14th May 2015 at 10:04 AM.

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    OK, that is excellent advise. Now to show I'm a total 406 HDi novice, where would I find and how would I remove the MAF, ERG valve??? I can do these things, but am unaware of where they sit? I reckon it'll be a NEW car once I attend to these things.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    The MAF is at the back of the air cleaner housing and have you checked the condition of the air filter.
    The EGR valve is over the back of the engine and difficult to get at.
    There is a product you can spray into the air cleaner inlet to clean the EGR but hold off until hopefully someone comments on the safety and effectiveness of this treatment.
    Utube is now a good place to get some idea of how to do basic maintenance.eg;
    MAF; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8yHXJCjJI
    BASIC SERVICE; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa3OeeKmSOU
    Last edited by andrepug; 14th May 2015 at 11:17 AM.

  22. #22
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    I agree that the MAF should be checked. I once looked at a 406 in Sydney which was in 'limp mode' I suggested that the lady owner take it to a Peugeot dealer rather than 'her' mechanic, and let me know when the car was working properly. I did not hear from her again. IF she went to a proper mechanic, she probably decided to keep the 'bomb'.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    ok, so today I disconnected the MAF sensor and took the car for a run. I noticed a more willing car, it was noticeable. Having said that, I still can only really feel the turbo boost coming in at about 2850 or so. It does feel a little more lively through the lower ranges - notably above 2000rpm, but that proper boost only is felt between 2850 and on. It seems to wind out more, and unlike before the car picks up more in gear. I feel as though boost is all over and the urge dies off at about 3500 or so.

    I still feel the car wants to do more in the 1500-2500 band, but for some reason may be a little inhibited. I'm not sure about the ERG thing, but perhaps that's another angle. I'm taking the car to PQAM this week for a proper Pug examination, and whilst I don't specifically know, I suspect they'll have a better means by which to determine where it's at.

    I am seriously starting to love this Pug though, it's everything I was hoping for and more! That takes it to six Pugs; 205gti, 504GL, 406 petrol, 505 wagon (sisters car - that I got from Roley), 306GTI-6 (i still have it tucked away), and now the Hdi. Also had a Clip Cup in there, but sold it after three months to a mate. I wonder if i'm classed as a proper Pug-nut yet?

    Adam

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    there's an update...

    Tested the MAF and really nothing happening there. I actually think the issue with my car is the throttle position sensor. I've seen a you tube clip on it, and its the schizophrenic nature of the boost that brings me to this conclusion.

    It's weird .. sitting in traffic on take off and I am now getting strong boost in 2nd gear, when loaded up on a slow start I get decent boost. It seems to be that once up to a decent speed, the boost just dies off, it's all very unpredictable. The good news is that when it does work, it pulls HARD and is fast. Thing is, it's all very unpredictable.

  25. #25
    Tadpole
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    Sounds like a tricky solution to this problem.
    I have had 2 406 HDIs and 1 V6. The V6 accelerates like a rocket the HDi pulls like a train but both will get you around a slower vehicle very effectively. I have towed a car trailer with other pugs on board from as far away as Gosford and only had to change down to 4th on 2 hills and returned 7lt/ 100k's.
    Recently I towed a 406 with my 508 and it returned 10lt/100k's but still did it well .
    My first 406 is very different in behaviour to my second but they are both outstanding value for money and fuel economy.
    Good luck sorting it out, its worth the perseverance.

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