504 steering column issue
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  1. #1
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Default 504 steering column issue

    So I went to remove the steering wheel from the TI as I have a better one to put on. To shock the wheel off I loosened the nut (past the end of the thread) and gave it a few whacks with a small sledge hammer - it actually took a pretty hard smack to get it off. (I now realize it's better to yank the wheel from alternating sides!).

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    Anyway, when I went to put the wheel back on it sits hard up against the column cowling, so much so that it forces the upper and lower parts of the cowling apart and restricts the steering.

    it seems like I have somehow forced the column to move downwards. I figured it must have moved on the the spline where the small universal joint joins the upper and lower parts of the steering column. I loosened the bolts clamping the uni to the splines and used a block of wood and the hammer to move the column back... I can move it on the spline where the uni and the lower steering column meet, but this doesn't fix the problem. The steering wheel still sits tight against the cowling.

    So basically I wonder what I've done and what's stopping the column from moving back again. Does anyone out there know how the steering columns are put together and what the problem might be?

    Thanks in advance.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  2. #2
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    John
    You might have distorted the 4 studs which hold the column in place. I think that a careful hit in the other direction might sort the issue outside
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I know I once sorted this problem out by removing the whole column and partly dismantling, but I'm afraid I can't remember exactly what had shifted.

    What I would suggest as a quick first try would be to use the thread and nut on the column itself as a puller. Remove the wheel, inspect to see if a suitable bit of pipe and a few washers might allow you to draw the shaft back up. Don't go too far as it can bind at the other end too. It shouldn't need much torque.

    Have fun,

    Rob.

  4. #4
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Thanks gents.

    Rob, I've already tried to drift the column up using a piece of wood behind the nut. I can move it fairly easily up and down about 3 or 4 mm, but it just stops firm as far out as I can get it and won't go any further. As I said it's the lower half of the uni that moves freely on the spline of the lower steering column. Something else is stopping it. Gerry, I don't think it's the studs. I've had the nuts off and lowered the upper column, all looks well. I'm getting very frustrated!
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    What about the splines on the shaft at the rack end? The other thing is that late'ish 504s have a collapsable steering column which consists of an inner shaft and an outer steel sheeth separated by a plastic sleeve. Maybe you've damaged that part. If that's the problem you'll have to obtain another steering column.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    "Drift" as in hitting? I was suggesting drawing the shaft outwards using its own thread as a puller.

    Anyhow I have dusted off one of the old 504 manuals but its exploded diagram doesn't show the internals of the steering column, so no luck there.

    One other thing is that you may have driven the lower shaft further into the flector than it should be, so working under the car might win you something.

    [edit] I see Peter snuck in with the same idea while I wasn't looking.

    Have fun,

    Rob.

  7. #7
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Hitting yes... and I see what you mean now. But I think I'll have a look underneath as suggested.

    It's a 1974 model... do these have a collapsible steering column?
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  8. #8
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    Hitting yes... and I see what you mean now. But I think I'll have a look underneath as suggested.

    It's a 1974 model... do these have a collapsible steering column?
    You should also check the shaft clamping on the uni joint under the dash.

    And also check the outer column fixing bolts. Haven't slipped.

    You may find you have closed up all adjustments when removing the wheel.

    Perhaps just loosen off all the clamps on the splines and see if give it an almighty pull upwards and see you can get it back?

    I vaguely remember some peugeot steering wheels had two m8 holes outside the spline. I made a puller with a piece of brass plate that went over the end of column and secured with two M8 bolts. Just tightened the bolts to remove the wheel. (404 I think)

  9. #9
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Success? I loosened the clamp at the flector and then easily drifted the column up a bit... the only thing is it appears that part of the spline is only freshly exposed. You can see the lighter coloured bit in the picture.

    504 steering column issue-uploadfromtaptalk1422669175654.jpg
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  10. #10
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Did you bend the metal parts inside the "flexor coupler" (name?) that joins the steering shaft to the rack shaft?
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  11. #11
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Flexor coupler? Wouldn't that be the flector?

    Anyway, everything is back together now and seems all ok. Thanks for the help everyone.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  12. #12
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'm very uneasy about this. If something is not back the way it was before, you should investigate why, and not drive the car. Steering is more important than brakes.

    It is my gut feeling you have destroyed a collapsible column.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    I agree with addo. I did the same thing many years ago and ended up changing over the whole steering column (except for the plastic cowling) - just to make sure all was well. In my case I had a spare so it was not a real hassle.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Certainly not good that the telltale has changed.

    Steering's vital, but in this case I think the danger is probably not huge. I'm not sure how these fail, but at worst it's going to fail on rotation and (bravely discounting Murphy's Law) the column torque is much greater in parking than at highway speeds. Easy enough to test under greater strain than any driving conditions while standing still in the garage.

    That said, the right thing is to dismantle and diagnose and replace it if it's collapsed. Make sure any replacement column isn't collapsed. Anyone have a spec. for acceptable shaft length?

    Have fun,

    Rob.

  15. #15
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Thanks for the concern. I'm not even sure a 1974 504 has a collapsible steering column, can anyone confirm?

    My feeling now is that the spline at the upper end of the uni is the one that moved and is now stuck. I was able to move the other two, one on the uni and one at the flector. I guess the three splines allow for some adjustment and it's now adjusted slightly differently to before but the end result is the same. I hope so anyway!

    Worth another look, I'll see.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  16. #16
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Quite a few cars had them by about 1971/72, the Flagon being an example (came in with late XY; possibly the true GTs had this feature locked off with welds). Some had plastic or soft metal pegs, three or four, pinning the slip sections together. I think there was slight "meshing" of the two so fractured pegs meant there was still control possible - but it's safer to not go there.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! julian b's Avatar
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    Collapsible columns became compulsory in 72 ADRs the same time as locking steering columns .504s already had them before that.

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