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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Seeking a 504!

    Hi
    I'm new to this forum and completely wet behind the ears, so please be kind. I grew up with Peugeots and have continued to admire them into adulthood - now, in middle age, it's time to purchase my own - but where to start???
    First I need a bit of support - my husband and other members of my family are not as excited as I am about purchasing a Pug. "No, don't do it", "You'll regret it", "Not reliable", "You'll never find parts for it" ad infinitum. So - my enthusiasm hasn't been dampened - entirely. I need some help from the experts on this forum to a) explain Pugs are actually one of the 50 best cars ever made b) If I purchase a well-restored one and keep an eye on general maintenance it will see me through until my eyesight goes and my license is taken away.
    That's my aim - the future Popfrog-mobile will be my much-loved runabout - with the occasional 200km roadtrip. If I purchase the right one I don't plan on looking for another car again.
    My questions are as follows:
    1) Am I better off going for a diesel or a petrol? I'm leaning toward diesel, because in my Peugeot-infant mind I'm thinking despite how well the valves etc have been made in the leaded petrol models, surely there must be some damage if people have been putting unleaded through them - but then, what would I know?
    2)Are the late 70s-early80s models better than the early 70s?
    3)Is it possible to find a lovely original car that hasn't been completely Frankenstiened?
    4)How difficult is it to maintain these girls on a weekly basis - is it a matter of checking oil/water, or do I need to do a mechanics course? (Not so silly, I did actually suggest that to my husband).
    5)What should I be looking out for? I know that the 504s are prone to rust under the doors - but what else should a novice be aware of?
    6)How do I go about finding a trustworthy vendor - I was hoping the people on this site might point me in the right direction - and warn me where to avoid?

    Apologies for bombarding you with all these questions, but I'm desperately keen to satisfy my Peugeot itch and have no idea where to start. Thanks

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    There is one for sale in the QLD Club mag. It might meet your reqirements and not need too much work (not mine, don't live in QLD anymore and I haven't seen it but it reads all right)

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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Here goes, this will start the ball rolling:

    A lot depends on $'s.

    You have just missed a reasonable couple on "carsales".

    1) :- I would not go diesel, too costly to maintain if not in good order at purchase.

    2) :- Early 70s less complicated.

    3):- Every couple of years a good one pops up. You have just missed a couple of late on "carsales". One was low mileage $12K late model and the other was early model $4.5k(still on "caresales" though marked as sold?).

    4):- If the car has a good engine and radiator in good condition these cars are very reliable. "Google":- '504 Africa' images, most of these cars are still daily driven.

    5):- Rust, Rust and running hot (water in engine oil). See 'x' marks the spot in photos for rust areas.

    6):- You will not find many! Pre purchase post info on the car you find and I am sure "aussiefroggers" will help you.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Seeking a 504!-rust-1.jpg   Seeking a 504!-rust-2.jpg  
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Hi FlashCar
    Thanks so much for that. I've sent an email requesting more info. Not sure if it is still available.

  5. #5
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Hmm, that 607 sounds nice too...

    Dave
    2008 Renault Laguna 2.0 dCi break
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  6. #6
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    Thanks for that Bigrrr. I did send and inquiry about that gorgeous girl on carsales...I think you have her pictured. Unfortunately it was sold before I even received a reply from the seller. Thanks too for the "x" pictures - I'll be printing them. There is one mentioned here in Queensland. I'm waiting for a response. The diesel in carsales is apparently being looked at and I have spoken with the vendor, but something just doesn't sit right with me - can't put my finger on it - so I just told him I'd pass. There is another on auto trader, a white '73 - with very little info, so I'm waiting to hear back from them too. It seems that they're snapped up pretty quickly. My hubby says "Oh, there are thousands of them...." - but not how I'd like them. I'm thinking about $4000 give or take. Do you think I should do ok?

  7. #7
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'm going to play the contrarian.

    I absolutely do like 504s but don't believe that for an everyday run-around car it may be a practical choice. I'm also someone who believes that people should either make a reasoned, considered choice or admit they are making an impulsive and emotive decision for which they accept the potential consequences. A lot of buyers make faux-rational decisions - short on homework, then have a big fat whinge basically because their own sloth/impulsivity has bitten them on the arse and they won't look in the mirror. (As you can see, besides contrarian I can be abrasive.)

    Remember too, the price of purchase is only your entry pass, not an accurate reflection of what it may cost to maintain. If your budget is still OK with this concept, why not look at other classic cars with similar annual costs to save you wondering later on?

    Upkeep for a daily driver is more rigorous than an occasionally used car, a workshop with hoist really is needed for some items. Be prepared to shop overseas and trawl the internet. Work on your French and look for people with dusty old stock they will send to "monde entier".

    Modern cars are designed with more thought about the repair process, so they come apart and go back together much more readily. This potentially leads to a mechanic becoming frustrated and either doing a botched job, not wanting to do the job, or shortcutting - none of these are good outcomes but I have seen them all done by more than one "specialist". Both owner and mechanic need to understand this point very clearly and be amenable to where it may lead in terms of cost and downtime.

    At least in Sydney, the malicious snobbery towards older cars (other than extremely conspicuous exotics) is quite remarkable - people will open their doors against your car, bump park with their Prado; stuff like that, without a glimmer of morality or conscience.

    The sheetmetal design and coatings are nowhere near so progressive as for a newer car, there are water traps and untreated panels waiting to burst into flourishes of iron oxide. A 504 will need to be garaged, or at the least kept in a carport with sides. Body repairs to cars like the 504 reflect the mechanical side's propensity to not be so straightforward as a "modern" Pug and the same caveats about disinterest or shoddy work, apply.

    Aircon, if not working, can be expensive to recommission. I urge people to do it; trucker's arm is not glamorous in a nation of sun cancers but see my earlier comment about the need for understanding between technician and owner BEFORE work commences and you are left with "sticker shock". Consider a light window tint for the same reasons.

    Be sure a prospective purchase can be insured for a fair equivalent of actual replacement cost - not purchase price - and that an insurer will cover repairs to more than 80% of sum insured. 90% is ideal.
    Popfrog likes this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I'm going to play the contrarian.

    I absolutely do like 504s but don't believe that for an everyday run-around car it may be a practical choice. I'm also someone who believes that people should either make a reasoned, considered choice or admit they are making an impulsive and emotive decision for which they accept the potential consequences. A lot of buyers make faux-rational decisions - short on homework, then have a big fat whinge basically because their own sloth/impulsivity has bitten them on the arse and they won't look in the mirror. (As you can see, besides contrarian I can be abrasive.)

    Remember too, the price of purchase is only your entry pass, not an accurate reflection of what it may cost to maintain. If your budget is still OK with this concept, why not look at other classic cars with similar annual costs to save you wondering later on?

    Upkeep for a daily driver is more rigorous than an occasionally used car, a workshop with hoist really is needed for some items. Be prepared to shop overseas and trawl the internet. Work on your French and look for people with dusty old stock they will send to "monde entier".
    Modern cars are designed with more thought about the repair process, so they come apart and go back together much more readily. This potentially leads to a mechanic becoming frustrated and either doing a botched job, not wanting to do the job, or shortcutting - none of these are good outcomes but I have seen them all done by more than one "specialist". Both owner and mechanic need to understand this point very clearly and be amenable to where it may lead in terms of cost and downtime.

    At least in Sydney, the malicious snobbery towards older cars (other than extremely conspicuous exotics) is quite remarkable - people will open their doors against your car, bump park with their Prado; stuff like that, without a glimmer of morality or conscience.

    The sheetmetal design and coatings are nowhere near so progressive as for a newer car, there are water traps and untreated panels waiting to burst into flourishes of iron oxide. A 504 will need to be garaged, or at the least kept in a carport with sides. Body repairs to cars like the 504 reflect the mechanical side's propensity to not be so straightforward as a "modern" Pug and the same caveats about disinterest or shoddy work, apply.

    Aircon, if not working, can be expensive to recommission. I urge people to do it; trucker's arm is not glamorous in a nation of sun cancers but see my earlier comment about the need for understanding between technician and owner BEFORE work commences and you are left with "sticker shock". Consider a light window tint for the same reasons.

    Be sure a prospective purchase can be insured for a fair equivalent of actual replacement cost - not purchase price - and that an insurer will cover repairs to more than 80% of sum insured. 90% is ideal.
    Are you my husband?

  9. #9
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'm still laughing! No, spoken for elsewhere in Australia.

    The rare parts hunt is something I really enjoy, as a reformed hoarder.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I'm still laughing! No, spoken for elsewhere in Australia.

    The rare parts hunt is something I really enjoy, as a reformed hoarder.
    I'm glad you realised I was kidding. You're right. This is a complete emotional attachment thing and really I have no idea why. But isn't that why anybody buys an old vehicle? I would prefer not to think of it as an impulse as I have been wanting/admiring for many years. Also, I'm trying to get up to speed and educate myself by researching on the net and speaking with owners (I've spoken to a couple who were exceptionally helpful - words like "aluminium heads", "hardened inserts" (valves?)"wet sleeve engine" and "glorified paper seals" have entered my lexicon). Coming onto a forum like this is completely intimidating - firstly because I'm a novice who will perhaps be open to ridicule and perhaps exploitation by any charlatan who has the moral fibre of a hairbrush, and secondly because I'm female in what is traditionally a man's world (cars n' stuff)... I'm sure there are lots of ladies here somewhere.
    Why don't I go for a Mercedes, BMW or a Beetle? Have no idea, but they just don't rock my boat. My family used to have Peugeots, parents, aunts, uncle, sister. My sister's was an absolute lemon and died on me, in the rain, at the Botanic roundabout in Adelaide (only Adelaide people will understand what a true disaster that was).

    Now, to this REFORMED hoarder thing.....

  11. #11
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    You need to chat with Steph ("StephineS") at some point. She'll take the reform out of anybody's hoarding. Been a long-distance mate of mine about fourteen years.

    Mark at Lion Automobiles has always seemed a fairly level-headed sort of bloke, I don't know the current state of his business, or how he looks at older cars - but it may be a good start to speak with him if you're looking for an experienced mechanic to lean on.
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Good 504s are out there but you need to understand that most of them are between rust ie they have been rusty, been repaired well or otherwise and are starting the process again. They must be kept undercover to slow/stop the cycle. Mechanically, they are perfectly suited to modern traffic conditions if you give them a few revs off the line. The absolute weak point is the cooling. While it is in perfect condition it is fine but once the radiator becomes even a little clogged or the fan ceases to work as it should [both very common] then there is hell to pay. The simple fix is a radiator out of a VL Commodore and an electric fan......which may require a bigger alternator [VP Commodore] etc. They are basically a simple car but a 35-40 year old car of any sort can be a money pit. I only just sold my excellent 504 a few months ago after 40 years of on and off ownership. Truly great cars but $ 4000 buys you a lot of much more modern, safer, economical, reliable [but maybe not as interesting] cars. Happy hunting. Neil
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    The other thing is that there are very few of them around. This is due to them being either scrapped or exported to the Middle East en masse.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popfrog View Post
    I'm glad you realised I was kidding. You're right. This is a complete emotional attachment thing and really I have no idea why. But isn't that why anybody buys an old vehicle? I would prefer not to think of it as an impulse as I have been wanting/admiring for many years. Also, I'm trying to get up to speed and educate myself by researching on the net and speaking with owners (I've spoken to a couple who were exceptionally helpful - words like "aluminium heads", "hardened inserts" (valves?)"wet sleeve engine" and "glorified paper seals" have entered my lexicon). Coming onto a forum like this is completely intimidating - firstly because I'm a novice who will perhaps be open to ridicule and perhaps exploitation by any charlatan who has the moral fibre of a hairbrush, and secondly because I'm female in what is traditionally a man's world (cars n' stuff)... I'm sure there are lots of ladies here somewhere.
    Why don't I go for a Mercedes, BMW or a Beetle? Have no idea, but they just don't rock my boat. My family used to have Peugeots, parents, aunts, uncle, sister. My sister's was an absolute lemon and died on me, in the rain, at the Botanic roundabout in Adelaide (only Adelaide people will understand what a true disaster that was).

    Now, to this REFORMED hoarder thing.....
    Sorry, that would be Britannia roundabout.

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    I'm wondering about this parts situation ... are they really that difficult to find parts for? I always thought because they were so popular in the 70s and 80s here that it would be "relatively" easy to find parts for them. I remember Dad always grumbling about ours getting hot (circa 1984). Beginning to sound like owning one would be like tending to a cranky great aunt - a LABOR of love perhaps.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I don't see it as being that bad; with the right mechanic on board you plan and prioritise. Nothing mechanical should take it down for more than a week, maybe two if you need overseas parts at short notice.

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    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    They might've been popular in the '70s but now that they are few in number in Australia, parts importers don't have plentiful supplies of parts that they can't sell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Popfrog View Post
    I'm wondering about this parts situation ... are they really that difficult to find parts for? I always thought because they were so popular in the 70s and 80s here that it would be "relatively" easy to find parts for them. I remember Dad always grumbling about ours getting hot (circa 1984). Beginning to sound like owning one would be like tending to a cranky great aunt - a LABOR of love perhaps.
    i'd go for a nice 505 GTI Series Two. Either wagon or sedan. Rust is not such a problem and they are very strong and the Douvrin engine is bullet proof.
    Graham

  19. #19
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    ...and Popfrog please stay around. We like a gal with a sense of humour

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  20. #20
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'm going to "Like" that comment just because you posted it.
    68 404 likes this.

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    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    BigRR, I keep an eye on Carsale but didn't see the $12k 504. Hard to believe that price, top whack is usually around 7 grand. Just out of interest, do you have any more information about that car?

    And Popfrog, I believe a 504 could indeed do the job of a regular runabout, as long as you have a mechanic who knows them well to keep an eye on it for you. Parts are available if you know where to find them. I have two 504s and love 'em. Best of luck in your search! And if doesn't work out, you will have had a bit of fun anyway.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  22. #22
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=peujohn;1321687]BigRR, I keep an eye on Carsale but didn't see the $12k 504. Hard to believe that price, top whack is usually around 7 grand. Just out of interest, do you have any more information about that car?

    QUOTE]

    The car was on carsale's site for months mid last year, Silver 1977? model Rod Piggot car I think. Do not know if it sold though and thought it started at bout $12k. Very good car. (Found it:- Used Cars - New Cars - Search New & Used Cars For Sale - 1977 Peugeot 504 GL - carsales.com.au )

    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Most 504's that haven't gone to Egypt are those that are owned by enthusiasts and are usually worth looking at.
    The parts situation is not a big problem for most consumables, major engine parts are readily available still.
    The car Neil S just sold is now fitted with a fully reconditioned engine (not really needed the old one is going in another car), a 5spd box and a 4.1 diff and a larger radiator from a 505 sedan s/h rear brake calipers to fix a handbrake fault and a new clutch kit.
    The body is the most important thing to look at the mechanicals are very easy to sort out.

  24. #24
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    My 504 is my daily driver. But I am blessed with a good one, only because I have looked after it for 35 years!. As mentioned above, they must have a well maintained cooling system. I recently installed new radiator, water pump, fan switch, thermostat and even replaced the cable with carbon tip that runs from the fan switch to the fan hub.

    Parts can be sourced from overseas that take just over a week to arrive via postage. I order most stuff from here:

    https://www.franzose.de/en/Home/

    If you are looking at an Automatic, fair chance they are leaking oil like a sieve. The three speed auto (ZF3HP20) is very smooth. A seal kit can be ordered from here:

    Automatic, Standard Transmission & Transfer Case Rebuild Kits Cobra Transmission


    but then there is the labour to remove, rebuilt and refit box - about 8 hours!

    They are heavy on fuel compared with modern day cars. Mine has the original solex carby (fully rebuilt) running premium unleaded and around town I get about 13-14 litres/100kms. On the highway, that does drop to about 10 litres per 100.

    If looked after and you know the history they are a very nice car to drive. They are a hot car for the occupants in the summer especially sitting at traffic lights.

    Rust can be an issue - check door pillars where the hinges sit, inside the wheel arches if the body deadening has come away, bottom of doors, lower rear panels.

    Good luck

  25. #25
    Tadpole
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    [QUOTE=BIGRR;1321722]
    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    BigRR, I keep an eye on Carsale but didn't see the $12k 504. Hard to believe that price, top whack is usually around 7 grand. Just out of interest, do you have any more information about that car?

    QUOTE]

    The car was on carsale's site for months mid last year, Silver 1977? model Rod Piggot car I think. Do not know if it sold though and thought it started at bout $12k. Very good car. (Found it:- Used Cars - New Cars - Search New & Used Cars For Sale - 1977 Peugeot 504 GL - carsales.com.au )

    BEEEEEEWTiful car Bigrr ... I wonder who has it now?

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