84 505 STI . and the stocko powerplant that lives within..
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    84 505 STI . and the stocko powerplant that lives within..

    Hi All...

    I oculd very well be in teh posestion of a Series 1 505 STI.. and well.. shes beautiful and perfect in nearly all areas.. Apart from of teh line.. shes preety lazy i supse.. (trying to be nice to the old girl lol, oh and the invasive engine volume when cruzing,, oh.. and the gear box that just seems to be tooooo long.. and teh air con that believes it should either be a snow or blizard in side your car. LOLOL

    Anyway !!! LOL i realy do love it to pieces and after scrolling down and rading many an argunet for and against V8 Rovers.. Turbo X1's? even the SR20's and the pug's v6...... (this car seems to ba able to take anything. !! )
    I wanted to know What sort of performance can be extracted reasonable from the 2.2 Fule injected donk that lies within curently..

    As i em but very young in the world... a Turbo would extremly kripple my food purchsing ability for the next 5 years or so.. And i love my food so that will just not do..

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    Has anyone played with this engine. Extracted anything nice and dandy.. Is it worth playing with?

    Budgets wise... i supose i realy wouldnt want to spend anything over 3k on the old monster... Turbo does seem nice on the smaller engine tho.. but alas Insurance and rego regually. and teh initailay cost of engine swaping would krippley me..

    Any sugestions.. Thanks guys.. bowie

    head_ban mallet cheers! hihi these thinsg realy are so dam cool !! lol a_drink

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  2. #2
    Gus
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    Welcome the STI club. I had a bloke at The Wheel Factory in Queanbeyan make a crack about STIs and WRX STi's the other day...

    Unfortunately, these cars aren't in the same performance category as the Subaru. Neverheless, here's what I know:

    i) This engine is not considered tough enough for forced air (turbo/supercharging.)

    ii) When the mechanical injection gets old, ze engine she does not want to rev. I used to think my STI was born that way, until the piston in the fuel distributor packed it in completely. With a "new" one, it now revs very nicely (proper throttle response, goes to redline without being forced, etc.) So if it feels too leisurely, pull the fuel distributor off and check the piston comes out the bottom freely (don't take the distributor apart, though). Bear in mind that mine had done > 500,000km before it started playing up (a rubber stopper dissolved.)

    Some good info on the K-Jetronic injection can be found at <a href="http://www.students.tut.fi/~hezekiel/bosch.htm" target="_blank">http://www.students.tut.fi/~hezekiel/bosch.htm</a> and <a href="http://www.users.bigpond.com/INTERJECT/KJETRON.HTM" target="_blank">http://www.users.bigpond.com/INTERJECT/KJETRON.HTM</a>
    . The K-Jet is nothing to sniff at, it was used in the first Porsche 911 Turbos.

    iii) These engines can be a bastard to work on. If you don't believe me, try to find the distributor. . Some people (davemcbean for instance) advocate pulling the whole engine and putting in a GR 2.0L, which is more moddable and much easier to maintain. The 2.0L looks more like an engine and less like a cluster of hoses(!).

    iv) You can pull off the entire fuel injection set-up and whack on a modified Weber manifold off a Fuego (AFAIK Fuegos use the same block with a different head) once you adapt it. I don't know exactly what this entails to get it on, but allegedly you'd get more power and it'd be much easier to get tuned.

    The main problem with that approach is the big bend required in the manifold. Air/fuel mixture doesn't like going round corners. I suppose you could fit sidedraught?!? (my knowledge of carbies is sketchy). Someone also suggested LPG, as gas goes round corners better than little particles of fuel.

    Last alternative is to fit GTi head and pistons and add aftermarket injection. This would not be cheap, but it'd probably be the way to get the most power from the block.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ahhh i see.. so not easy wiether way.. Hmmm

    yeah my pug has done about 400,000kms + was dads workhorse... but he was quite marticulas at getting it service reguallry at Euro Centre, at Tugrah. you know of the place.

    Actually yeah.. the 505 does exactly feel as you describe.. very hard to get to red line.... very.. lolol... but then again.. prefer tourque lol

    Ah ok.. thanks yourve sortsed some issues out for me.. Thanks mate..

    <small>[ 23 August 2002, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: bowie ]</small>

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  4. #4
    Gus
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    hehe... my 505 came from my dad too.

    but if it doesn't want to rev, you're losing power... The injection works out how much fuel to send to the engine relative to the amount of air coming in (the ratio is meant to be something like 17:1 I think.)

    It does this by an air flow sensor plate which pushes a small piston in and out of the base of the fuel distributor. When there's a lot of air flow (ie throttle open), the plate pushes the piston in and more fuel gets sent to the engine. When there's not a lot, the piston comes out and less fuel gets sent to the engine.

    What happened in my car is the piston started jamming. That meant that when you put your foot down, more air flows but the sensor plate takes a few seconds to move the piston so the mixture is lean on acceleration (danger! danger!). Then, when you close the throttle the piston takes time to come out which means the mixture is rich on deceleration (in my case this culminated when the piston got jammed permanently on full rich, flooded the engine and smoked up good!)

    ... the other possibility is the ignition timing is retarded. Not too hard to check (but I've never tried adjusting the timing myself.)

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    wow... that K-tronic system is preety impresive... see why there so complicated... i cant belive that all resids on teh Pugs donk... Prety enginous idea b4 the holy grail of silicon took the world be force.

    yeah how good are dads for pasing on their lovley moto-vechiles

    too all the dads out there.. Have another beer!!

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #6
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    bowie:
    wow... that K-tronic system is preety impresive... see why there so complicated... i cant belive that all resids on teh Pugs donk... Prety enginous idea b4 the holy grail of silicon took the world be force.

    yeah how good are dads for pasing on their lovley moto-vechiles

    too all the dads out there.. Have another beer!!
    Actually Electronic injection was first developed in the mid-1950's, and first applied in the mid 1960's, 5-10 years before the K-jetronic mechanical system was developed (early-mid-1970s).

    Bosch invented the K-jetronic as a cheap injection system to satisfy US emissions regulations, as an alternative to their better D-jetronic electronic injection which they had already been using for a decade on premium models, and the VW beetle in California.

    Dave

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    well ill be..

    That is impresssive.. lol your history and knowledge of such matters that is.. Thanks very much !!

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    <small>[ 02 September 2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Haakon ]</small>
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Maybe you guys can help. A friend of mine wanted a good solid machine for his first car, so I found him an STi in very good nick with about 210000 km on it. Was a bit wonky on the idle though, so I said take it to an injection specialist after I serviced the buggery out of it, did the timing belt etc, as it was out of my league. So he took it to a pug specialist who sonic cleaned the iinjectors, charged him around $350 and handed it back back running like crap, stalling at lights and everything. I said take it back, and their solution was to raise the idle - not good in an auto. What have they done wrong, or have'nt done at all?
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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