505 GR getting hot
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon8 505 GR getting hot

    Hi all, need bit of advice please!
    I had new headcasket done last week? What a mess . Should have done the bloody thing myself! Took it back after the first drive as she was overheating going up hills and not running very well, suggested they may have not aligned the cam & crank (even gave a Haynes manual to help), well 5 days later,it's still the same.
    Anyway the long & short of it is, she still overheats up hills, runs fast at idle, hard to start misfiring etc .
    I sounds like the camshaft and the grank are not aligned ?
    I checked out the handy work and the timing is way out as the timing marks on the crank pulley are know where near the timing mark. They mucked around with the dizzy and charged me extra for that, just to get it running.
    Thanks .
    Ian
    505 GR

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! PCOATES505's Avatar
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    Default 505gr getting hot

    Quote Originally Posted by peugeot604
    Hi all, need bit of advice please!
    I had new headcasket done last week? What a mess . Should have done the bloody thing myself! Took it back after the first drive as she was overheating going up hills and not running very well, suggested they may have not aligned the cam & crank (even gave a Haynes manual to help), well 5 days later,it's still the same.
    Anyway the long & short of it is, she still overheats up hills, runs fast at idle, hard to start misfiring etc .
    I sounds like the camshaft and the grank are not aligned ?
    I checked out the handy work and the timing is way out as the timing marks on the crank pulley are know where near the timing mark. They mucked around with the dizzy and charged me extra for that, just to get it running.
    Thanks .
    Ian
    505 GR
    To do a head gasket there is no need to go near the timing gears and chain so I doubt that the valve timing has changed, but if the ignition timing is way out this can cause overheating and starting problems. Also you could check that the spark plug leads are in the right spots as per the firing order.
    Pete

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCOATES505
    To do a head gasket there is no need to go near the timing gears and chain so I doubt that the valve timing has changed, but if the ignition timing is way out this can cause overheating and starting problems. Also you could check that the spark plug leads are in the right spots as per the firing order.
    Pete
    Thanks Pete,

    I don't know why I thought it was the timing gears? Had a proper look at the workshop manual and the engine again and realised it could not be. I can see that some of the leads had been numbered, but as you say, maybe not the correct ones. So I will have a look at them and see what happens.
    Thanks again.
    Ian

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! PCOATES505's Avatar
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    Default 505 getting hot

    Quote Originally Posted by peugeot604
    Thanks Pete,

    I don't know why I thought it was the timing gears? Had a proper look at the workshop manual and the engine again and realised it could not be. I can see that some of the leads had been numbered, but as you say, maybe not the correct ones. So I will have a look at them and see what happens.
    Thanks again.
    Ian
    just as a BTW if every thing else is ok, getting hot when under load is symptomatic of insufficient radiator capacity and maybe your radiator needs cleaning. Other things that cause overheating are thermostat not opening, check that there is flow through the radiator by getting the engine warm enough ( with the radiator cap off ) for the thermostat to be open about 85 c and you should see water flow across the radiator, if not the thermostat is probably not open or the water pump impeller is rs. Another thing that causes problems is the welch plug behind the water pump, if badly corroded or displaced will cause the cooling system to short circuit and run hot.

    Regards Pete

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    one thing i have always done with a car that has a blown head gasket is while waiting for the head to return is to get the radiator cleaned out

    you will find that 9 times from 10 the radiator will not be cooling as per original
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  6. #6
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Plug leads on the wrong plugs won't cause overheating... because it doesn't fire it doesn't get hot at all.

    There is a fair chance the head gasket has been put on back to front here, you know, blocking the channel for the water to go down into the block from the pump... common problem...

    That definitely causes overheating! And quickly!

    To check, take off the pump and put a piece of wire down the tract and see if it goes into the water jacket of the block. If you want to, you can chisel the gasket out if this is the problem, you need to shape up something to chisel with, but I have done it and it's not too hard.

    At least it saves you taking the head off again... and you can tell the guy who did it he should look at things more closely...

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCOATES505
    just as a BTW if every thing else is ok, getting hot when under load is symptomatic of insufficient radiator capacity and maybe your radiator needs cleaning. Other things that cause overheating are thermostat not opening, check that there is flow through the radiator by getting the engine warm enough ( with the radiator cap off ) for the thermostat to be open about 85 c and you should see water flow across the radiator, if not the thermostat is probably not open or the water pump impeller is rs. Another thing that causes problems is the welch plug behind the water pump, if badly corroded or displaced will cause the cooling system to short circuit and run hot.

    Regards Pete
    The radiator was repaired (thats how we found out the head casket was going) late last year, I will check the thermostat and to see what is going on.
    Regards
    Ian

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Plug leads on the wrong plugs won't cause overheating... because it doesn't fire it doesn't get hot at all.

    There is a fair chance the head gasket has been put on back to front here, you know, blocking the channel for the water to go down into the block from the pump... common problem...

    That definitely causes overheating! And quickly!

    To check, take off the pump and put a piece of wire down the tract and see if it goes into the water jacket of the block. If you want to, you can chisel the gasket out if this is the problem, you need to shape up something to chisel with, but I have done it and it's not too hard.

    At least it saves you taking the head off again... and you can tell the guy who did it he should look at things more closely...
    Thanks Ray, I give what you say a try also. I would not be surprised to see the casket is on the wrong way round.

  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You need to take the water pump off... then figure out how the waterway goes from the pump down towards the block... the hole is about 10 or 12mm wide (ie. front to back of the engine) and about 25mm to 30mm long (ie. from side to side of the engine), so if you poke a piece of wire in there and it doesn't go far enough for you to be sure it's down in the block, you've found the problem.

  10. #10
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    Hi, Ray could well be right, I had the head gasket replaced by a non pug mecahnic, and they put the gasket on the wrong way. from memory there is a tell tale tab of the gasket that protrudes and if in the wrong spot it's very obvious. Also your heater would not work too well too as I recall if the water chamber is blocked off.

    Cheers ..... nick

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick I
    Hi, Ray could well be right, I had the head gasket replaced by a non pug mecahnic, and they put the gasket on the wrong way. from memory there is a tell tale tab of the gasket that protrudes and if in the wrong spot it's very obvious. Also your heater would not work too well too as I recall if the water chamber is blocked off.

    Cheers ..... nick

    i'd be inclined to take it back off and put it right even if it means getting a new gasket

    they aren't hard to do
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Well, I've done it on a 404 and it has a much more difficult gasket to chop through than a 504... it had the metal sandwich gasket.

    Taking off the head again is an awful lot more trouble, and giving it back to the mechanic just might be asking for more problems too.

    I say just chop it out... but tell the mechanic first...

    Nick's right, of course, there is a tab that sits out from the front top corner of the head when it's in the right way... it's obviously going to be at the back, somewhere just under the heater outlet pipe, if it's on back to front...

    Check it out that way...

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! boodek's Avatar
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    The vacuum advance hose to the distributor is hooked up correctly?
    Ben.
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