Grumpy 504 owner - HELP!
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Grumpy 504 owner - HELP!

    Please help me. I have a 504 Ti and it's giving me the absolute shits. A little bit of history: bought the car thinking it was a bargain at $300 and have been fixing everything ever since. Thought I had it all sorted until recently.

    To cut a long story short it's misfiring under any sort of load (and I'm talking 5-10% throttle!) and has nothing LIKE the power it used to have. It's just had the head off, new plugs, and serviced today (of course they didn't check it for what I asked them to...grrrrr). Clues to this might be:

    1. Loud electric fuel lift pump at rear (non-original regulator was rigged up for that by the same ppl last year and puts out 2.2bar, with the excess (4.8bar) re-routed to return line to fuel tank) is making loud buzzing noise; or could be regulator that was fitted.

    2. Slight squeak coming from manual gearbox when I changed gears and when engine misfires that I only noticed today as I drove it home.

    Clutch isn't brilliant but not bad enough to warrant this kind of behaviour I wouldn't have thought - could it be gearbox/clutch related? Please don't say fuel injection.

    Any help is much appreciated. Thanks fellow pug freaks,

    Chris.

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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    does it idle ?
    are ALL the filters clean ?
    are the points set right ?
    there are a few things that can cause a TI to mis-behave generally it is to do dirty fuel or a perforated diaphragm
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Think:

    Spark - Checked the points and the plug leads? maybe a capacitor or a coil? Ignition timing? damaged rotor or distributor cap? A dead sparkplug? A poor connection or corroded lead on the ignition low tension circuit?
    Fuel - Well, the fuel itself first of all? Any chance of contamination or a "bad" load? If not, fuel pump, or fuel filter, if not, the dreaded injection system
    Air - How long since you checked the air filter
    Vacuum - any loose or cracked vacuum lines?
    Exhaust - a blockage from a damaged baffle or someone stuck something up the pipe?

    (one other sneaky one, with a 504, can be seized rear brakes. Is either side getting very hot?)

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 29 May 2003, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Rod Hagen:
    Think:

    Spark - Checked the points and the plug leads? maybe a capacitor or a coil? Ignition timing? damaged rotor or distributror cap? A dead sparkplug?
    Fuel - Well, the fuel itself first of all? Any chance of contamination or a "bad" load? If not, fuel pump, or fuel filter, if not, the dreaded injection system
    Air - How long since you checked the air filter
    Vacuum - any loose or cracked vacuum lines?
    Exhaust - a blockage from a damaged baffle or someone stuck something up the pipe?

    (one other sneaky one, with a 504, can be seized rear brakes. Is either side getting very hot?)

    Cheers

    Rod
    Those capacitors can cause a lot of grief and they are easy to ignor...no moving parts not an obvious point of wear. Try swapping it,it won't cost much and even if it doesn't work you probably have done the ignition a favour.

    cheers!
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    If you want to get really grumpy take a similar vintage holdon or foulcon for a ride around the block, that will most likely give you a bit of fortitude to work on the 504, there well worth the occasional inconvenience. Most likely the best $300 you have ever invested on a banyol even if it never runs again at least youv'e been introduced. regards cane toad

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Rod Hagen:
    Think:

    Spark - Checked the points and the plug leads? maybe a capacitor or a coil? Ignition timing? damaged rotor or distributor cap? A dead sparkplug? A poor connection or corroded lead on the ignition low tension circuit?
    Fuel - Well, the fuel itself first of all? Any chance of contamination or a "bad" load? If not, fuel pump, or fuel filter, if not, the dreaded injection system
    Air - How long since you checked the air filter
    Vacuum - any loose or cracked vacuum lines?
    Exhaust - a blockage from a damaged baffle or someone stuck something up the pipe?

    (one other sneaky one, with a 504, can be seized rear brakes. Is either side getting very hot?)

    Cheers

    Rod
    Ok, well here's why I thought the engine was sorted:

    Spark - head has just been replaced with new gaskets, re-gapped plugs, good HT leads last year along with new distributor. Coil seems to be fine as does ballast resistor.

    Fuel - It's running on PULP and tuned as such, idles fine.

    Air - Cleaned filter myself last week, no rust.

    Vacuum - Only one cracked is breather hose and this certainly isn't vital to engine operation.

    Exhaust - Should be fine.

    Rear brakes - replaced pads yesterday. Look fine.

    But contrary to all this I drove it in yesterday and it was running on 3 cylinders on the highway and wouldn't go over 85-90km/h!!

    Please don't say fuel injection, it's the one thing that HASN'T gone!! cry

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    There should be a primary filter (just a cheap one) immediately out of the fuel tank... replace that as a matter of course. Only $4 or something, hardly worth not changing it.

    Check the hoses all over the injection system are all tight.

    Is it possible your near-new leads have been damaged while the car's been being worked on?

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Bagel:
    <strong>Please help me. I have a 504 Ti and it's giving me the absolute shits. A little bit of history: bought the car thinking it was a bargain at $300 and have been fixing everything ever since. Thought I had it all sorted until recently.

    To cut a long story short it's misfiring under any sort of load (and I'm talking 5-10% throttle!) and has nothing LIKE the power it used to have. It's just had the head off, new plugs, and serviced today (of course they didn't check it for what I asked them to...grrrrr). Clues to this might be:</strong>

    Check your coil make sure you have non resistants coil with low resistants leads and piss off any ballist resistor block. replace condenser and points while your at it then do plugs. That miss fire is mostly gonna be some of the afformentioned.

    .<strong>1. Loud electric fuel lift pump at rear (non-original regulator was rigged up for that by the same ppl last year and puts out 2.2bar, with the excess (4.8bar) re-routed to return line to fuel tank) is making loud buzzing noise; or could be regulator that was fitted.

    2. Slight squeak coming from manual gearbox when I changed gears and when engine misfires that I only noticed today as I drove it home..</strong>

    Lubricate ball and main linkages check gearbox oil as well.

    .<strong>Clutch isn't brilliant but not bad enough to warrant this kind of behaviour I wouldn't have thought - could it be gearbox/clutch related? Please don't say fuel injection..</strong> make sure you use a good filter!

    probably just a shit clutch. but you can remove housing inpection plates. check that the fork an ball on the housing is not broken.

    .<strong>Any help is much appreciated. Thanks fellow pug freaks,.</strong>

    no worries

    Compression check also good idea! tell me the no's on each pump for each cyllinder?

    Chris
    Al

  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I'm beginning to think you've cut the long story a tad too short...

    Has the engine run properly since you did the head gasket at all?

    This makes a huge difference. The gearbox and clutch will have nothing to do with it misfiring.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    park - head has just been replaced with new gaskets, re-gapped plugs, good HT leads last year along with new distributor. Coil seems to be fine as does ballast resistor.
    (The following assumes that it was running fine after the head job was done, but isn't now)

    What do the plugs look like after a run? Is one of them fouling up or wet?

    If so , I'd be concentrating on that cylinder. Try a new plug in it. Try another HT lead. Check that leads connection with the distributor cap.

    I don't know anything about KF injection, but a blocked injector might be another possibility here. If it idles all right, but misses under load then that sounds like a distinct possibility.

    If all the plugs look more or less the same, then I'd be suspecting a fuel supply problem - probably a pump or filter issue.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Thanks for all the advice. I'm having the "pros" look at it and give me their (much more than) 2 cents worth. If they can't fix it I'll definitely have a look at the spark plugs and then check the injectors (after swearing at the mechanics for a while).

    Also, the car was doing this before the head job. Suspect the head gasket was blown due to little coolant in there after a teensy weensy accident whistle Cheers,

    Chris

  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    So did you replace the head gasket because it was blown?

    Was the engine playing up before the gasket blew?

    If the gasket was blown, did you surface the head?

    Did you do the job yourself or have it done by a workshop?

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Bagel:

    Also, the car was doing this before the head job. Suspect the head gasket was blown due to little coolant in there after a teensy weensy accident whistle Cheers,

    Chris
    Chris, if the car was doing this before the head job, and you had the "Pros" do the head job, I'd be back there asking them why they haven't fixed the problem!

    Surely it would have been test driven afterwards and any such problem detected? Or was it a DIY job?

    Cheers

    Rod
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  14. #14
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    all 504 heads are cracked
    how badly cracked is yours ?
    did you look at it when they took it off ???
    crack each injector line and make sure there is fuel at each one
    then take the injectors out and take them to a diesel place and get them clean and tested (this is a good thing to do anyway)
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    No, the head's fine, it had a couple of little spots in between cylinders 2 & 3 which needed welding but all good apart from that. Turned out it WAS the fuel lift pump, replaced TWO years ago it turned out and with the crap fuel that's been floating round Tas at the moment it buggered it in no time. I've been meaning to take the injectors to a diesel place for a while, and will probably do this when the bank balance recovers.

    Thanks heaps for everyone's help, another one for the log books (touch wood).

    Chris.

  16. #16
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Did you put a filter between the tank and the pump?

    That might help the pump live longer... and help the front filter element to last longer too.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Yep indeed. Cheers.

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