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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default A question for (VERY) early 203 experts

    Is there any way to tell a 1948 203 from a 1949 or are they identical? Or does anone know the chassis number for the 1948 cars. Production started on 01 Oct, but my list of chassis numbers doesn't differentiate between 48 and 49.

    I am going to look at a car on Monday which is supposedly a 1948 203. If it is I am VERY interested. If it is a '49 I am mildly interested. Anything later and it will need to be a bloody good one to get me revved up...

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    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    48 mod would have 2 external boot handles would it not? but i am no eggspert

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    Numbers from '49 are given here - http://worm.rkweb.org/2008/WoAug08.pdf

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    ..................and an "eyebrow" chrome strip along the top of each front guard and I think that the front seat had a "grab handle" across the top of the seat back and the front of the front seat was fixed so that the front seat could be tilted forward. The release lever to move the front seats forward in the '48 model has a "plastic" knob similar to the knob on the gear change. The '49 model went into production in October 1948 so it is a bit difficult to say conclusively when the '48 model finished and '49 started. Both had the cable operated boot release on top of the "box" on the left side of the left front seat squab and this was discontinued in the '50 model. I think that there were also changes in the stitching patterns on the seats and the door cards.

    All my records are still in boxes after the recent move so when and IF I find them I might be able to add a bit more.

    If anyone has a copy of the magazine article (Peugeot Association Canberra magazine "ROAR") I did for the 40th anniversary of the 203 in 1988 it details the changes year by year with very bad reproductions of pictures to show the changes.

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    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    Paraphrasing Russell Hall's Torque article (i think it was May 2014?) on this era, the first 3 were registered with Vic plates NO-XXX,
    with one known gone to god, but fwiw, (and I probably got this from Friday403) try this;



    seasink likes this.

  6. #6
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    Thanks guys... it is sounding promising.

    from what I have found out so far, 203 chassis numbers started in 1948 from 1 100 001. 1949 was 1 028 996 to 1 113 967. I am told the number of this car is close to 1 108 000. If so, it is a 1948. here's hoping... I wonder how many other 48's are out there. The one in the Peugeot museum is a 1949...
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    Is there any way to tell a 1948 203 from a 1949 or are they identical? Or does anone know the chassis number for the 1948 cars. Production started on 01 Oct, but my list of chassis numbers doesn't differentiate between 48 and 49.

    I am going to look at a car on Monday which is supposedly a 1948 203. If it is I am VERY interested. If it is a '49 I am mildly interested. Anything later and it will need to be a bloody good one to get me revved up...

    Hi , don't forget there is a casting date on the rear diff axel housing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugmachine View Post
    Hi , don't forget there is a casting date on the rear diff axel housing.
    I didn't know that. Where exactly is it on the casting?
    Casting dates aren't a 100% accurate dating tool as often castings are left to gae before being machined, and also some parrts back then were stockpiled as well. Still, if the diff was cast in 1949 it would be hard for the car to have been made in 1948!
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    on the axle tube from memory

    also on the back of the steering wheel and if you are very lucky a sticker on the back of the instrument cluster
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    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    would seem to me, assuming it is a sedan, the best way is - is it N3 or N3Y / N3Z tagged on firewall as per 'Symbole'?

    nb.
    in Peugeot-203-calendar-years this, as at 30th Oct., is only the first month of 2014
    Last edited by fnqvmuch; 30th October 2014 at 10:21 AM.

  11. #11
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    Russell Halls 1949 car is the oldest 203 recorded in Aus, no earlier 203 have been located, AFAIK

    please take some pics of the very early car , look forward to seeing them here

    good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    I didn't know that. Where exactly is it on the casting?
    Casting dates aren't a 100% accurate dating tool as often castings are left to gae before being machined, and also some parrts back then were stockpiled as well. Still, if the diff was cast in 1949 it would be hard for the car to have been made in 1948!
    Near the rear spring mount and sometimes on the diff housing. Also I have seen it sometimes on the flange of the torque tube.
    All the best with the find!

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1915 type 153 View Post
    Still, if the diff was cast in 1949 it would be hard for the car to have been made in 1948!
    But the 203, as launched in '48 was unchanged till Sept 49, so it just depends what one calls that first year.
    The factory appears to call it 1949 in this document i've been attaching ...


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    Anyone know what year Gordon Millers car is/was?

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    One source I have states that the 203 chassis/engine numbers started at 1.001.001.

    I have Fabien Sabates's book on 203 Peugeot (Collection Auto-Archives No. 15) and in it he states that the 48/49 203s were identified as N3 and the 1949 chassis numbers were from 1.028.996 to 1.113.967.

    Also in Votre Auto, March-April-May 1998, featuring Peugeot 203 they give the following:

    - 1948 Tientes de carrosseries: bordeaux et gris acier. Volant creme, tableau brun, roues bordeaux et interior marron glace.

    - 1949 idem 1948, sauf volant coleur marron glace.

    Missing a few inflections but I am not going to hazard a translation but I think it says they are essentially the same.

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    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Car 76 View Post
    One source I have states that the 203 chassis/engine numbers started at 1.001.001.
    ... FLASH
    Sorry Flash, could i ask you to check it's not 1.100.001?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Car 76 View Post
    ...
    I have Fabien Sabates's book on 203 Peugeot (Collection Auto-Archives No. 15) and in it he states that the 48/49 203s were identified as N3 and the 1949 chassis numbers were from 1.028.996 to 1.113.967.

    FLASH
    The factory dating thing has N3Zs (the 'stripper'- sans sunroof, etc) starting Feb. '49, but that ref above looks like the first calendar year breakdown we have ...

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Car 76 View Post

    Also in Votre Auto, March-April-May 1998, featuring Peugeot 203 they give the following:

    - 1948 Tientes de carrosseries: bordeaux et gris acier. Volant creme, tableau brun, roues bordeaux et interior marron glace.

    - 1949 idem 1948, sauf volant coleur marron glace.

    1948 .....gives the various body colours.

    1949....says "ditto 1948, but without the frosted brown". (Could be "matt brown", or "ice-brown").

  18. #18
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    Oops, yes that should be 1.100.001 - sorry. Checked all the other numbers and the are as written.

    FLASH

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    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    the coffee-table books; la 203 de mon pere, lauvray and album 203, pagneux
    give production totals 1949 as 13325 x N3 ('luxe) 34 x N3Z (d'affaires) and 66 x ND3 (decouverable)
    with variants proliferating thereafter
    while at it - as to GRM 203
    IIRC it must be what would be at least what was called a '53, having the big curved back window
    but maybe even a 203C (C2 box and vent windows) which were phased in from Sept 54 - not Oct
    sorry, i'll stop now

  20. #20
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    So did you buy it
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    So did you buy it
    I am seeing it on Monday!
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Chisholm View Post
    Anyone know what year Gordon Millers car is/was?
    GRM203 was a 203C, so post Oct 1954. I think it was a '55
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  23. #23
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    Could have been a late 54. i should know, i used to visit Gordon every time I was in Melbourne,a nd supplied him with some bits when he was doing his 404C as I had one at the same time.
    1999 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupe (Manual)
    1982 Porsche 944 Chassis no. 97, quite likely the oldest surviving production 944
    1978 Peugeot 504 Ti French assembled... because I need another project...
    1971 Peugeot 404 U10 ute (the love/hate vehicle. Used to love it. Now restored and I hate it)
    1930 Durant 614 coupe (Some American quality among the froggie taxis in my shed)
    1928 Renault KZ2 (the latest addition to the fleet)
    1915 Peugeot type 153A (very long term project)

  24. #24
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    I think Gordon's was a late 54 into 55. Carolyn and Lew Edwards were in Melbourne for a nephew's wedding and I asked them to go and look at the 203 for me. Lew decided it was too good for me and as Gordon had asked us to keep a look out for a 203 for him Lew told Gordon and (as they say) the rest is history. The car was originally black and a very straight virtually rust free example to start with. In fact it was (figuratively speaking) just around the corner from Gordon's place.
    FLASH

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    A question for (VERY) early 203 experts-dsc00639-copy.jpgA question for (VERY) early 203 experts-dsc00640-copy.jpg

    How would a 1948 model 203 have ended up in Australia? (NOS?)

    Just curious!
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