205 cold starting issue
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  1. #1
    Member joshspug's Avatar
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    Default 205 cold starting issue

    Hi all,
    I bought a 93 205 GTI a few months back. A few weeks ago it developed a cold starting issue, but idled well once started. Also had a few other issues I've been sorting through and have replaced an O2 sensor and air flow meter which has helped some other issues. When replaced the O2 sensor it seemed to fix the starting issue but only for a few days...
    Now once started with help of 'start ya bastard' idles super low and rough for a few mins then evens out as it warms up.
    Any ideas?
    I'm not great with fuel injection so I don't really know how the chock works on these thing but I'm assuming a sensor or something is stuffed.
    Also it's always run a little rich and got bad fuel economy around 10 L/100 which the O2 sensor hasn't fixed. Which has confused me as it doesn't get fuel on cold start but gets to much once running.
    It was in storage for many years before I brought it, but was starting fine when I got it. Because it was sitting for so long I have done a major service including all filters and fluids etc.
    Thanks
    JosH

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    does it start properly on the second (or later) starts? or is it always starting crap until it's warm

  3. #3
    Member joshspug's Avatar
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    It won't start cold at all without some help of start ya bastard. Even if it got it going in the morning but sits for a number of hours in the middle of the day, it still needs help once it's cooled down.
    Thanks josH

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    My guess would be the coolent temp sensor. These usually play up and can affect hot and cold running.

    Did you replace the AFM with the correct one? There are 2 (maybe 3) different types.

    Also have a look the SAD valve. These are notorious for playing up. This is basically your choke.

    Also check all your earths. Theres one on the top of the gearbox and one on the passenger side inner quarter panel. Remove the bolt and sand down the paint to make a better contact.

    Whats the condition of fuel filter and the fuel return lines? The return line can sometimes block and create fuelling issues.

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Faulty CTS (coolant Temperature Sensor), corroded wiring connectors or vacuum leak. Check these 3 things.

  6. #6
    Member joshspug's Avatar
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    Thanks guys.
    Yeah I think the AFM was right, same numbers on it.
    I'll run through these other few things in the next few days.
    Thanks josH

  7. #7
    Member joshspug's Avatar
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    I had a chance to have a look at it over yesterday and today. still haven't fixed anything yet, just seemed of made things worse. it still struggles to fire when cold.
    I brought a new coolant temp sensor, only sensor I could find seems to be for the gauge, how dose that effect the fuelling? I still put the new temp sensor in and now I have no temp gauge put the old one back in and it still doesn't work, thought I must have pinched the wire but all appears to be fine, any thoughts?
    I also pulled out the SAD valve, gave it a good clean, followed a process I found in other threads. This did help the idle once I got it started but didn't help the issue, it still wont fire when cold.
    only thing I can think of is that the coolant temp sensor I got is not what you all were talking about. is there two temp sensors, one for the gauge and one for the fuelling?
    any other thoughts?
    thanks josH

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Hi Josh

    The coolant temp sensor tell the computer if the coolant is cold ( cold start ) and therefore adds a little more fuel to start the bastard! Thats how it is supposed to work. Once the coolant comes up to temp the compiter then backs off the fuel. The SAD valve works in conjunction with it and ups the idle to aid with cold running.

    The coolant temp sensor has no effect on the gauges from memory. Thats another sensor/switch.

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  9. #9
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    Hi, could it be the tachymetric relay and therefore fuel pump/EFI not operating when cranking over... the 'start yer bastard' providing just enough 'fuel' to get things to tick over sufficiently for the distributor pulses to operate the relay in running mode?

  10. #10
    Member joshspug's Avatar
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    Well the temp sensor I replaced Im pretty sure is just for the gauge than. at the back of the head below the distributor, where is the coolant temp sensor you are talking about.
    I might try replacing the relay also. Are they the same between the series 1,2and 3? I got a series1 parts car but it's a series 3 I trying to get going.
    Thanks josH

  11. #11
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    Pretty sure the relays are all the same.

    Bosch 0 280 230 006
    Cartier 02474
    PSA 145205

  12. #12
    Member joshspug's Avatar
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    Hi all

    I still had no luck finding the issue. I have kept forgetting to mention it but my engine management warming light is always on also. but once going the car is running fine?
    There is no fuel pressure until the car is turning over. the pump is not activated while the ignition is no, only once the engine is turning over, and clearly once its started its fine. is this right? or should the it come on with the ignition before turning over? It dose appear that the fuel pump relays are slightly different, the one out of my S1 spare parts car is cartier 02474 placed in front of the battery, but my S3 is also cartier but 03701 and up above the driver footwell.
    Anybody got any ideas on the temp sensor? are the two sensor for the gauge and computer the same? can I swap the new gauge and old computer sensor around?

    thanks josH

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