404 Air Con
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Thread: 404 Air Con

  1. #1
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    Default 404 Air Con

    THis may be something of an old question, but I have not seen much on it, especially not recently.

    I am in assembly stages of ground-up restoration of 1970 404, with intention of use of it as a daily driver and laso for long distance trips, rallies etc.

    THe boss has pointed out that after a childhood of bouncing round the outback in SWB Landie without Aircon, she is loath to repeat the experience. She has a point, although Aircon goes against my minimalist/purist instincts.

    I can imagine that it wil be difficult and won`t have much hope of an off the shelf solution, especially as it is being done with a 404 injected motor, with associated injection pump etc.

    Does any body have any advice/tips/ help? Ideally and old aircomn out of a 404 that I could get redone, but failing this contacts for after-market historical aircon people would be helpful, together with any instructive personal experiences ( good or bad ! )

    WOuld be very grateful for any help

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    Andrew

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    THis may be something of an old question, but I have not seen much on it, especially not recently.

    I am in assembly stages of ground-up restoration of 1970 404, with intention of use of it as a daily driver and laso for long distance trips, rallies etc.

    THe boss has pointed out that after a childhood of bouncing round the outback in SWB Landie without Aircon, she is loath to repeat the experience. She has a point, although Aircon goes against my minimalist/purist instincts.

    I can imagine that it wil be difficult and won`t have much hope of an off the shelf solution, especially as it is being done with a 404 injected motor, with associated injection pump etc.

    Does any body have any advice/tips/ help? Ideally and old aircomn out of a 404 that I could get redone, but failing this contacts for after-market historical aircon people would be helpful, together with any instructive personal experiences ( good or bad ! )

    WOuld be very grateful for any help

    Andrew
    It's possible to fit aircon to a 404.

    The vehicle had a 505 2 litre engine.

    The only real issue is the space in front of the radiator to accommodate the condenser.

    I ended up fitting a 505 radiator with an electric fan on the engine side of radiator. You can then use a water pump without the fan clutch and move the radiator towards the rear of car. This gives just enough room to fit the condenser behind the grille. You need to trim some of unseen parts of the grille.

    The evaporator was an under dash unit mounted centrally under the dash and formed into a console.

    The mount and drive was off a 505 SR which has aircon compressor on the lower LHS side of the engine . If you fit a 505 SR sump, the mounts are already on the sump.

    The condenser was a "universal" as large as possible that fitted.

    You need to trim battery brackets (attaching to the rail) a little to misst the compressor. You need to make new brackets to lift battery about 100m higher but in same place.

    Pipe up is straight forward - just a couple of big holes with grommets through the firewall.

    I have a set of images which I can't post here because of size. If you pm me your email I'll send them to you.

    Speedy Air Spares has all the bits you need and is reasonably priced. Speedy Air Spares

    Unless you have refrigeration skills. I'd mount all the components, wire and let a professional pipe up and charge the system.

    It's a lot of work and fiddling around but it can be done.

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    Something wrong with SWMBO's memory. The SWB Landie had the best a/c going, at least while you were going - a large pair of fully up flaps under the windscreen. Series 1 and 2 didn't have any plastic dashboard in the way either.

    PS Here we are 404 Air Con-dash.jpg

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    Default 404 aircon

    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Something wrong with SWMBO's memory. The SWB Landie had the best a/c going, at least while you were going - a large pair of fully up flaps under the windscreen. Series 1 and 2 didn't have any plastic dashboard in the way either.

    PS Here we are Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dash.jpg 
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    I'm with you, but am having some trouble sustaining the argument

    I do like SWB Landies

    Andrew

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    Many thanks, this sounds very viable and also as if much of the grunt work can be done by the less gifted ( me )

    One of the many virtues of the 404 is the amount of space under the bonnet

    Can I take it the the 505SR sump fits the 404 engine without too much bastardry? I only know 404's and 504's.

    Have also been having lustful thoughts about 505 exhaust manifold, although this apparently incompatible with column shifter ( which I would prefer to retain ). It looks as if I need to start trawling the wreckers for quite a few 505 bits for the collection.

    I would be very grateful for 'photos. Email is [email protected]

    Many thanks for the advice

    Best Wishes

    Andrew

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    The sump that has the a/c mounts is the aluminum one which has 2 parts (a mini sump as they call it), but watch out of it- if it's fitted to a block which came with the tin black sump it can cause a real mess with lack of lubrication! It's written in a 504 manual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    Many thanks, this sounds very viable and also as if much of the grunt work can be done by the less gifted ( me )

    One of the many virtues of the 404 is the amount of space under the bonnet

    Can I take it the the 505SR sump fits the 404 engine without too much bastardry? I only know 404's and 504's.

    Have also been having lustful thoughts about 505 exhaust manifold, although this apparently incompatible with column shifter ( which I would prefer to retain ). It looks as if I need to start trawling the wreckers for quite a few 505 bits for the collection.

    I would be very grateful for 'photos. Email is [email protected]

    Many thanks for the advice

    Best Wishes

    Andrew
    The GR sump doesn't "fit" either the 1600 nor 1800 engine (404/early 504) . It may fit physically but there are issues with the oil drain system. Unless you fabricate an custom oil collector pipe from rear main to the lower sump the oil pumps starves of oil. I'm not even sure there is space within the sump to fit the drain pipe without gridlock with the crankshaft.

    I was assuming you would fit a 505 2L engine to car if intended as a daily driver. Straight forward to do during the restoration.

    A standard 1600 engine with air con would be very ordinary in performance. I would not suggest air con if 1600 engine remains.

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    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    Andrew, good luck with this project, and I sure would like to add your injected 404 to the registry, if you could let me know the VIN by pm.
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
    Register your 404: https://recensement.leclub404.com/submit.php

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    Many thanks, this sounds very viable and also as if much of the grunt work can be done by the less gifted ( me )

    One of the many virtues of the 404 is the amount of space under the bonnet

    Can I take it the the 505SR sump fits the 404 engine without too much bastardry? I only know 404's and 504's.

    Have also been having lustful thoughts about 505 exhaust manifold, although this apparently incompatible with column shifter ( which I would prefer to retain ). It looks as if I need to start trawling the wreckers for quite a few 505 bits for the collection.

    I would be very grateful for 'photos. Email is [email protected]

    Many thanks for the advice

    Best Wishes

    Andrew
    Hi Andrew,

    Sent an email with images but the Google mail bounced it back with "email address size violation".

    cheers

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The GR sump doesn't "fit" either the 1600 nor 1800 engine (404/early 504) . It may fit physically but there are issues with the oil drain system. Unless you fabricate an custom oil collector pipe from rear main to the lower sump the oil pumps starves of oil. I'm not even sure there is space within the sump to fit the drain pipe without gridlock with the crankshaft.

    I was assuming you would fit a 505 2L engine to car if intended as a daily driver. Straight forward to do during the restoration.

    A standard 1600 engine with air con would be very ordinary in performance. I would not suggest air con if 1600 engine remains.
    An injected motor should be able to handle A/C .

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    Quote Originally Posted by julian b View Post
    An injected motor should be able to handle A/C .
    Agreed. I have a 404 ute with an 1800 motor and an air conditioner. It is Ok, but you really know when the a/c kicks in.

    a bit more power would be great. Does have to be the bis sets a/c in the world it is only a small cabin.

    i am thinking of dropping a Douvrin from a 505 STI into it with a BA7/5. But I have been thinking about it for three years now.
    graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahammac View Post
    Agreed. I have a 404 ute with an 1800 motor and an air conditioner. It is Ok, but you really know when the a/c kicks in.

    a bit more power would be great. Does have to be the bis sets a/c in the world it is only a small cabin.

    i am thinking of dropping a Douvrin from a 505 STI into it with a BA7/5. But I have been thinking about it for three years now.
    graham
    Amazing that spell check or something else alway manages to make me sound like I have had a few beers. Not the case, it is only midday.

    anyway what I meant to say was "Doesn't have to be the biggest a/c in the world it is only a small cabin"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian b View Post
    An injected motor should be able to handle A/C .
    Yes, an injected motor more likely could handle aircon OK.

    However the question I ask is why would use an injection motor for transplant? Any injection is at least 40 years old. Parts are expensive and difficult to source. Especially pump drive belts. When they were new they good fuel economy on the highway .

    Surely it would make more sense to use a 505 engine, with a carby upgrade (Falcon Weber) and big-bore manifold and have the same power (probably a bit more), less complication and newer engine to boot.

    These days, the only injection motor I would use as donor in a 404 would be megaquirt based.
    Either with an XN injection head and a custom fuel rail or A square port head with the Falcon throttle bodies which bolt up to the Weber manifold footprint.

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    A504Ti motor wth the 505v sump would be the simplest solution. The alloy sump could be modified for the 404 block too.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianrobbo View Post
    A504Ti motor wth the 505v sump would be the simplest solution. The alloy sump could be modified for the 404 block too.
    Why ? The 505 engine has the sump attached.

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    Default peugeot 404 aircon

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Hi Andrew,

    Sent an email with images but the Google mail bounced it back with "email address size violation".

    cheers

    Rob

    Dear Rob

    Many thanks for the advice, also to all of the other Froggers for their contributions.

    Am planning to do the basics at this stage to set it up for addition later, once more fully researched - sump and mounts, drive pulley, radiator upgrade etc ). Engine has not yet gone into car, so there is some wiggle room.

    My .mac email is quite tolerant of file sizes, but may have glitched

    My other email is [email protected]. You may have more luck with this.

    Thanks again for the help and advice

    Andrew

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    Try this unit foir the cab mounted portion
    AIR CON A C Under Dash Chev Ford Holden Valiant | eBay
    Meggsy
    Current - 4007HDi
    Had - 407 HDI 406 SV 404, 504, 505 GR and STI. 405 GR ( carbie version) STI, MI16
    And an Austin 1800
    Learnt to drive in 203 Convertible and a 403 SW

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    Just an idea: There are a number of wrecked hybrid taxis around now with small efficient electric a/c compressors. An upgradeded alternator & deep cell battery mounted in the boot if no room in engine bay may be another solution with these older cars?

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