Fuel Filter Problems
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    S.E Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    262

    Fuel Filter Problems

    Hey guys

    What are the symptoms of a clogged fuel filter??? My '85 505 GTi is not healthy, and i think it might be a fuel filter.
    The engine stutters during when you take off, and stutters again under load. (e.g a slight hill...) It idles roughly, but on the highway, it cruises well at 100kmh.
    Any ideas aprreciated...
    :p

    Advertisement
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    S.E Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    262
    ...Getting deparate now! Its booked in for a roadworthy tommorow morning, and i cant even drive there.
    All power has is now gone, and it's hill climbing abilities are non-existent. All the vaccum hoses are secure and fine, all electronic injectors are fine, spark plugs are fine, air hoses and filters are fine, and there is vaccum in the Fi Pipes.
    I'm guessing by the sound of it, and by the way it idles (Nearly) fine that it is fuel starvation. The RACV guy guessed it was a fuel pressure problem, but it is nothing obvious.

    Waiting,
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923
    Jason,

    I would say that it is a better than even chance that it is your fuel filter for sure.
    I had a mate a few years ago who lived at Mount Tambourine. He had a CX Citroen that the experts had changed all sorts of things for all sorts of prices. He had a Ryco el cheapo plastic filter which to me seemed to stay full of fuel at idle. When it was flattened when stationary it seemed to be hesitant yet still revved to the redline. Drive out of his driveway out on to the road, great, turn on to the main drag, bit iffy, hit a slight rise and it dies. Get out, lift the bonnet, idling OK & filter fairly full. Drive off as soon as the load hits, it dies again and so it went on. If that sounds familiar, then do as I did; remove filter, fit new one, hit old filter with bloody big hammer. Petrol and shit flying everywhere; car went like a train.
    Being an EFi I would suggest a can of Redex fuel injector cleaner in the tank as soon as the filter is changed also.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    S.E Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    262
    Alan S

    Thanks. Sounds pretty simmilar. My problem is that the filter is a large steel one strapped to the bottom of the car near the fuel tank. This makes it impossible to actually see whats going in and coming out of it. Also, it has a pre-filter and a main filter. They are both non-original Ryco thingies, so i will replace them.
    The unfourtunate thing is that our driveway is on a resonably steep slope, so getting it out of the driveway takes a good 15 minutes, (Litteraly).
    Also, the car actually has no power at all any more. Idles still, but put it under load (i.e- pressing the throttle an inch) and it dies.

    Keep the ideas coming,
    Thanks,
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  5. #5
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Hobart, Tasmania
    Posts
    13
    Thats the problem Jason.....I have seen another GTI with the exact problem !!!

    Change the filters and you should be all go !

    Ben

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,640
    Yes, there is a good chance that it is a fuel filter issue.

    A couple of other possibilities though -


    2) fault with the engine injection management computer

    3) An ignitrion system fault - have you checked for actual quality of spark at the plugs?

    3) Rare, but its happened to me , took three days to find, and had almost identical symptoms - a blocked exhaust caused by a disintegrating Cat converter.

    4) blocked air intake

    Cheers

    Rod
    Rod's Home Page

    Rod's car page

    Peugeot 4008 2016Peugeot 407 SV HDi estate 2008, Peugeot 407 SV Hdi Sedan 2006, (deadish), - Previously 403s, 404, 504, 505 sLI Wagons, 406 ST 1997, 307 XSE, 306 XSi, Renault 12, Citroen DSpecial

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    S.E Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    262
    I'm pretty sure i know it is the fuel sytem now. It would seem that after the GTi came out, it was recalled to have a little tiny electric pump inside of the fuel tank removed. Most owners had this done, but it would seem that this car was never properley "fixed". It seems that on hot days in Australia, this pump had a tendancy to fail, causing the fuel pressure to be reduced.
    It is supposed to be removed, and replaced with a blank, but on mine, the wiring was simply disconnected.
    This just means that it when the fuel filter gets slghtly clogged, it reduces the pressure further, and you get a poor fule flow.

    Anyway, i'll get the $83.99 DIY modification kit, and a new filter and it should be fine! (I Hope...)

    Thanks again everone,
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Posts
    1,757
    If this really was a recall item, you should get the money back from the importer! For the kit, that is, not the filter
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
    Register your 404: https://recensement.leclub404.com/submit.php

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    S.E Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    262
    Mike, one would hope so...
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    S.E Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    262
    But, after all that (replacement filter, fuel pump thingy etc...)

    I GIVE UP!!!
    I think it's tim to call in the proffesionals. It really doesnt appear to be anything obvious. Here's whats happening:
    -When its cold, it runs fine, although it is a little rough
    -Once it warms up, it idles well, and you can rev freely upto 6000rpm, but it stutters between 1000 and 2000 rpm
    -Put it into gear, it chugs, and idles roughly, chokes and splutters. As soon as you put your foot on the accelarator, the revs drop, and to move it forward, i need to fully open the throttle
    -Once it is moving, it chugs and accellarates poorly, but otherwise runs up to 110kmh

    ANY suggestions welcome!

    Thanks for all your help so far,
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,269
    my old mans TI had a similar fault once and i tracked it down to the points gap actually bieng closed up
    i don't know if you have points or electronic ignition on that car but it might be worth a look
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Newcastle, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    547
    Hi all.

    Sounds a bit like mine. 505 STi '84 Auto

    When cold it idles no rougher than usual, but as accelerate out of the first 3 or 4 corners of my street and the surrounds the revs drop as I accelerate then the engine picks itself up and off it goes. After that it runs fine. Nothing to bad but only started about a Month ago.

    Jono
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    150
    Anyone thought about plugs? I put a set of NGK in my '85 GTi and within the month the beast was mis-behaving again. Replaced the rotor, cap and leads and, with the rubber boots at the plugs pulled back, it was like St Elmos Fire in the plug wells. The car was almost undriveable.

    Cleaned out the plug wells with a steam cleaner and re-inserted the rubber boots, and now I have just a slight hesitation under load. About to put in a set of EYQUEM plugs. There is an informative thread on plugs elsewhere in this Forum.

    Just a thought

    Cheers
    Cheers,
    Brodie

    '78 604 SL (LPG) ...........for sale ..sold
    '81 604 SL (spares) .......for sale ..sold
    '85 505 GTi ..................for sale ..sold
    '94 405 SRDT............... for sale ..sold
    '07 307 HDi hatch
    '07 307 HDi Wagon

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    south australia
    Posts
    225
    hi rod,all the 505 gti i have worked on have pre pumps in the tank,these only supply fuel volumn not pressure,thats thier purpose.they have a nylon sock type filter on the bottom,never seen one totaly blocked yet unless you have mushrooms growing in your tank from water contamination.the socks can rub through on the bottom of the tank and let dirt into them ( the pre pump ) and they will jam up.once they jam the main pump has to suck through this one and can not supply enough pressure.the next filter is your main one,take it off and shake it then pour the fuel out into a clean bowl and try and blow through it by mouth,if suspect just change it with a BOSCH unit not a ryco,they are cheap.if you still have your pre pump and the wires are unplugged you will have problems for sure,more so as the main pump ages and the weather gets hotter,you will get vapour lock.i have never heard of a recall to remove the pre pump,it doesnt make sense to do that.your fuel loads a lower when cruising so that would make sense by your description.another thing to check is the tachometric relay.i had one the other day,similar to yours,and found it had partialy burnt out the raley circuit inside,low voltage to the ecu and fuel pumps under load.just some thoughts,stuart.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,640
    [quote]Originally posted by crosspug:
    <strong>Hi all.

    505 STi '84 Auto

    When cold it idles no rougher than usual, but as accelerate out of the first 3 or 4 corners of my street and the surrounds the revs drop as I accelerate then the engine picks itself up and off it goes. After that it runs fine.

    Jono</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Could be an injection problem (cold start injector cutting out too early? ) dirty injectors, dirty electronic connector, malfunctioning temnperature sensor or warm up regulator, etc or even an auto transmission issue perhaps (cold fluid, sticking transmission brake? etc?)

    There is a very thorough discussion of K-Tronic injection systems at <a href="http://www.users.bigpond.com/INTERJECT/KSITEPLN.HTM" target="_blank">http://www.users.bigpond.com/INTERJECT/KSITEPLN.HTM</a>

    Another useful one is <a href="http://www.students.tut.fi:80/~hezekiel/bosch.htm" target="_blank">http://www.students.tut.fi:80/~hezekiel/bosch.htm</a>

    Cheers

    Rod


    Cheers

    Rod
    Rod's Home Page

    Rod's car page

    Peugeot 4008 2016Peugeot 407 SV HDi estate 2008, Peugeot 407 SV Hdi Sedan 2006, (deadish), - Previously 403s, 404, 504, 505 sLI Wagons, 406 ST 1997, 307 XSE, 306 XSi, Renault 12, Citroen DSpecial

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,640
    [quote]Originally posted by Pug505exec:
    <strong>Here's whats happening:
    -When its cold, it runs fine, although it is a little rough
    -Once it warms up, it idles well, and you can rev freely upto 6000rpm, but it stutters between 1000 and 2000 rpm
    -Put it into gear, it chugs, and idles roughly, chokes and splutters. As soon as you put your foot on the accelarator, the revs drop, and to move it forward, i need to fully open the throttle
    -Once it is moving, it chugs and accellarates poorly, but otherwise runs up to 110kmh

    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Sounds to me like a problem with a temperature sensor or the ECU, Jason.

    The J-tronic systems don't have a 'cold start injector" (unlike the K-Tronics). Instead the ECU controls the fuel requirements depending on temperature. If the sensor isn't working, if there is a faulty electrical connection or if the ECU isn't functioning properly it may continue pumping in the "cold start" requirement of fuel, even when the engine warms up. Hence the 'runs fine when cold - doesn't when warmed up" problem.

    Cheers

    Rod
    Rod's Home Page

    Rod's car page

    Peugeot 4008 2016Peugeot 407 SV HDi estate 2008, Peugeot 407 SV Hdi Sedan 2006, (deadish), - Previously 403s, 404, 504, 505 sLI Wagons, 406 ST 1997, 307 XSE, 306 XSi, Renault 12, Citroen DSpecial

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    S.E Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    262
    Well, today i got our local mechanic to fix it while it was having a roadworthy.
    Everyone on Froggy Forum, the guys at Regan Motors, Grahm Birrell motors and Bob Watson service centre, as well as the RACV roadside assistance mechanic said it had something to do with the fuel system. But it wasnt.
    The distributor cap had (somehow) become dislodged, and one of the carbon rods inside it had fallen into the mechanism inside the distributor, causing two of the cylinders to act very erracticly, and intermittently, occasionaly a third would die to.
    It's all better now, and i'm not complaining, because the engine runs smoother, quieter and is FAR more powerful after the replacement fuel filter etc.
    Thanks alot everybody for all your advice
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  18. #18
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Glad to hear its all back to normal
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,640
    [quote]Originally posted by Pug505exec:
    <strong>
    Everyone on Froggy Forum, the guys at Regan Motors, Grahm Birrell motors and Bob Watson service centre, as well as the RACV roadside assistance mechanic said it had something to do with the fuel system. But it wasnt.
    Thanks alot everybody for all your advice
    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Ah, now if any of them had checked the spark at the plugs, as I suggested in my first post, they would all have saved themselves (and you) a lot of trouble!



    The first thing with this sort of problem is to try and isolate the system that is causing the problem. In order of frequency of occurence you can usually bet on 1) spark, 2) fuel, 3)vacuum, 4) air, 5) rare - and often overlooked altogether - exhaust.

    Then, of course, there is the occasional time when you get an interaction between them, but my guess would be that around 60% of such problems are electrical, 30 % fuel and the rest making up 10% between them.

    Properly checking spark at the plugs as a first step in fault diagnosis accordingly ALWAYS makes good sense.

    Cheers

    Rod
    Rod's Home Page

    Rod's car page

    Peugeot 4008 2016Peugeot 407 SV HDi estate 2008, Peugeot 407 SV Hdi Sedan 2006, (deadish), - Previously 403s, 404, 504, 505 sLI Wagons, 406 ST 1997, 307 XSE, 306 XSi, Renault 12, Citroen DSpecial

  20. #20
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camden NSW & Selwyn NZ
    Posts
    2,334
    I agree with Rod about the ignition/electrical system usually being the most likely to be the source of a problem, and with the order of problem systems he suggested. I would put the figure closer to 90% electrical though. This doesn't just apply to Peugeots. It applies to all spark ignition engines. I've found that the Fords and Toyotas that I've had are much more sensitive to ignition problems than my Peugeots.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,640
    You could well be right about the figures Dave. My own views are probably a bit skewed by having spent many years knocking around in the NT outback , refilling from 44 gallon drums and jerry cans! In that environment fuel looms larger as an issue, but even then it is less likely to be the cause of the problem than spark.

    Mind you, out in the bush kangaroos and cattle can also impede forward motion significantly on occasion!

    Cheers

    Rod
    Rod's Home Page

    Rod's car page

    Peugeot 4008 2016Peugeot 407 SV HDi estate 2008, Peugeot 407 SV Hdi Sedan 2006, (deadish), - Previously 403s, 404, 504, 505 sLI Wagons, 406 ST 1997, 307 XSE, 306 XSi, Renault 12, Citroen DSpecial

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •