407 HDi E G R removal
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 407 HDi E G R removal

    Please, HELP needed before something breaks, or gets broken.!
    A mechanic who has been very good to me in trying to cure a misfire/rough idling Nov '04 build 407 2.0 HDi has talked me into conducting compression test on the overfuelling #1, and so the EGR must come off to gain access to #1 glow plug. After overcoming the reluctance factor to a job that looks to be an absolute bitch, all the bolts felt to be necessary are now in a box and the mongrel egr still won't move.
    The egr to manifold tube is now off, and the 2 flange bolts holding it to the heat exchanger are out along with the 2 long bolts holding it to the engine, but it still won't come free. An acquaintance at a Dealer says that it should now be free, and a post '05 build UK thread indicates the same.
    My feeling is that there is a 3rd bolt holding the EGR and it is most likely in the vertical plane but without vision it's only guessing. Maybe the very early ones had an extra that was omitted later on.
    If you've got recall of reading of my troubles in earlier thread it may be of interest that I found the bolt supposed to hold the 2 pieces of air filter to turbo piping together has gone; thus, perhaps leaving the possibility of extra air that the MAF hasn't seen getting to the combustion chamber.

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    Many thanks for your help if you know the answer or just have a good idea.!

  2. #2
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    Assuming a DW10B does this help?

    407 HDi  E G R removal-motor.jpg

    or this?

    407 HDi  E G R removal-moteur-407-20-hdi-136-fap.jpg
    There's a couple of fixings at the bottom. (Thanks to a couple of Euro wrecker's catalogues)
    Last edited by seasink; 25th September 2014 at 11:04 PM.

  3. #3
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    Evening seasink, thanks a lot. It looks like I now know where the extra bolt is and I'll attempt extraction tomorrow - hopefully it'll just be a hex head and not torx or allen key with the risk of stripping the drive if I don't get it right first time. Didn't think of looking at complete engines and wasted hours trying to find a video on DW10BTDE4 EGR removal and then pics of the proper EGR.
    Do you understand much about these computers, especially with fitting a same donor engine into a different car.?

  4. #4
    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day, I was thinking about making an offer on a 2008 407 Hdi Coupe. Are they generally reliable ? What would be be a fair price ?
    regards,
    Les W.


    206 GTi 180
    the stealth Pug
    Did I do anything last night that suggested I was sane?








  5. #5
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    The photos of the engine's dark side helped and the EGR came free after using a 5mm Allen key to loosen the culprit enough to allow the unit to slide out. It is a Delphi unit and showing a sign of exhaust gas leaking past through the hole where the actuating shaft runs - other than that it looks good, moves freely and is electric control and power only. Thanks seasink for your effort.

  6. #6
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    Evening all. All glow plugs are now extracted and a compression test done. With #1 delivering an immeasurable amount more than zero and #2 having 290 psi the gear was packed away and latest activity is find a 2.0 HDi engine carrying the 10 DYSN PSA RHR code.
    The engine in the 307 I got in case of needing a replacement is a 10 DYVM PSA RHR and runs beautifully if any one knows how compatible it would be as a substitute for the 10 DYSN version.
    Apparently this failure of comp in #1 is previously unknown, but is unlikely o win me an award such as a replacement engine. Due to there being no increase in oil consumption it follows that the fault must lie in the valves.

  7. #7
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Have you looked for broken rocker arms?

    p.s. By No.1 you mean the "French" 1, as in closest to the flywheel?

  8. #8
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    Yes addo my #1 is indeed the classic Peug closest to the flywheel.
    No, the rocker covers are still in situ. Your question provokes some thought, and my initial one is that a broken rocker would more likely leave the affected valve closed and not be of much concern at idle where the demand for flow rate is minimal. But that thought is only theory with no experience to back it. Thanks.!!

  9. #9
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    that was my first thaught also but a broken rocker ,could have been caused by a bent valve ,timeing belt issue but in that case you would have more than one bent ,im wondering if the inlet valve was closed the piston wouldnt have any air to compress ,as it hadnt drawn any in ,is that feasible ,pugs

  10. #10
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    In consideration of how it went once 1500rpm was on the dial it is most unlikely that it could have been effectively running on 3 cylinders. Today testing will occur to verify whether it is inlet or exhaust that is faulty. So far the most likely scenario is a piece of damaged rocker is holding a valve slightly open. If this be so it is hoped the seat and valve are still serviceable

  11. #11
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    Getting close to lifting the rocker cover. It is free on the exhaust side but wants to hinge on the inlet side. All easily seen bolts are out, so there must be a secret bolt somewhere or there's just more glue on that side requiring more muscle power.
    My testing establishes the virtual certainty of the issue being a stuck exhaust valve.

  12. #12
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    Citroen has handbooks for this motor. The most recent (2008) is in French,
    http://service.citroen.com/dtt/CDP/d...II/2008_c5.zip
    The 2005 edition is the latest English version
    http://service.citroen.com/dtt/CDP/d...us_t3_2005.zip

    The diagrams show all the fixings and torques.

  13. #13
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    I hope the engine has been pinned for timing and the belt cut off, before removal of the top covers.

  14. #14
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    For example-
    407 HDi  E G R removal-screenshot-14.jpg

  15. #15
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    Thanks seasink, you are a gem. I'll get the computer master to download some good bits in the morning.
    Do you know of a link to 406 stdt with 2.1 Lucas EPIC.?

  16. #16
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    Addo, you are scaring me now. At present I've only undone the securing bolts for the very top plastic bits. Now that I've looked at the pic seasink sent I can understand your concern and am grateful for your warning. Had hoped to be able to see some good bits with the plastic off; just like in the 2.1 XUDII.
    The cam drive group is untouched and still operational. It was in my head to leave it intact so that if the leaking valve could be freed and allowed to seat then a comp test could be done to see how good #1 could pressurise air.

  17. #17
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    You mean like this?
    407 HDi  E G R removal-lucas.jpg

    From a Xantia manual.

  18. #18
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    More Xantia pumps
    407 HDi  E G R removal-lucas2.jpg
    Hope it's the right one.

  19. #19
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    Great stuff seasink. That looks like what is in my 406. Plans are to replace it with a Bosch after Lucas is deceased, or I do have a functioning 405 Lucas that I figure could also keep the old girl on the road.
    Problem with the 406 is 4 broken exhaust rockers caused by previous owner/ mech not using a new harmonic balancer and the rubber cut a 140mm hole in the cambelt cover. Word from UK is that I should get away with rocker replacement only and new, belts tensioners and etcetera. Without a manual I'm a bit stuck on the intricacies of cambelt tensioner removal/refitting and etcetera. Am going to have to retime it and figure that won't be too hard if extra careful.
    Had a V6 406 years ago and am really keen about getting this wagon on the road.

  20. #20
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Rockers are cheap, replace them all for under $200 (FAI brand). Good supply of timing tool kits on Fleabay too.

  21. #21
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    Thanks! Is that Aus or UK Fleabay.? And 406 or 407 or both.?

  22. #22
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    UK is usually more productive. Your engine is in a heap of Cit and Pugs, as well as Ford and others, so always check the engine code.

  23. #23
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    seasink, thanks for your advice. In view of no response whatsoever from 3 likely parts suppliers in Aus since last Tu there's really no other choice but UK. When you say code is it the numbers and letters stamped onto an aluminium plate fixed to the top part of the cambelt cover you refer to? or is there something else.?
    Have now seen on an exploded view of the 'valves guide rocker gear' and learnt that there is a 'rocker/lever fixing yoke' ( Peu #0910 37) that may have the potential to become dislodged in such a way that it prevents the exh valve from closing. Consequently I'd like to be able to lift the cam holding top cover without upsetting anything/timing if there is a way to do that.??
    If the reason for the valve staying open is easily fixable then by replacing the top cover a compression test may prove the valve seat to be OK. Well that's the theory anyway. And if it is not acceptable then a complete engine swap will occur. Many thanks.!

  24. #24
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    You have the belt tension trying to lift the cams up. The cover holds them down. In light of not having pinned the timing and cut off the belt already, I think you have ahead the necessity to:

    1. Cut off the belt
    2. Remove the rocker gear
    3. Time up the crank and pin it
    4. Reassemble the top end with correct timing and new cam seals

    There's too much risk in my opinion, of something otherwise slightly obstructing a cam journal if you try tightening the cover down again without confirming everything else.

    Try Fleabay seller "trechii" for the right rockers if needed - phone him using the contact number in one of the listings.

  25. #25
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    Thanks addo, the unknown is the damage, if any, to valve face/s and seat/s. If they are corrupted then the sealing will be troubled and repair will incur head removal which is less to my liking than to replace the 407 engine with the 307 unit. So, it is hoped to be able to leave the system as intact as possible while discovering the cause of all the troubles , fix it and then test. Perhaps if the tensioner is relaxed after locking/ marking the pulleys and et cetera the camshafts will stay calm, save for the action of a couple of valves that are under the influence of a lobe or 2.
    To have to painstakingly align the whole lot just to discover the compression is too far out is something I'd rather just think about. Somewhere there is a vague recall of bolts being used to hold the cams during assembly of the top cover. They must have to do something like if there is not a narrow part of the 4 cycles during which no valve is activated to some degree by a lobe.
    Fingers crossed, toes too.! cheers kelpiebat (aka 'D')

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